0:00:00 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: I don’t think imposter syndrome ever goes away. I think when I got asked to speak at the Advancing Women in Agriculture conference, I was thinking I was in, like, a little room, and they’re like, no, you’re on the main stage. I’m like, oh, I don’t belong here. Fear’s allowed to come along for the ride, but fear is not allowed to change. The radio station is not allowed to tell you where to go.

0:00:24 Amanda Stassen: Welcome to the Purpose Power Brand show, where we have conversations with leaders and brands transforming business into a force for good. I’m Amanda Stassen, business and brand strategist, entrepreneur, and founder of Bisou Innovation. I’m speaking with business builders and entrepreneurs, the dreamers and the doers who are proving that not only does purpose drive profit, but the future of our world depends on it.

0:00:45 Amanda Stassen: My guest today is Julie Thurgood Burnett. She’s the founder and CEO at Hereward Farms, a Canadian lavender grower and producer of all natural lavender infused skincare and home products. In just four years, Julie’s taken her local family farm from a crazy idea to a thriving business with products featured in the likes of Vogue and Vanity Fair magazine. That’s no small feat for an entrepreneur or a small business startup. How did she do it?

0:01:11 Amanda Stassen: Get ready to be inspired and keep a notepad handy. Let’s get to it. All right, Julie, thanks so much for being here. Super excited to dive into your story.

0:01:21 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: Thank you. Thanks for having me.

0:01:23 Amanda Stassen: Yeah, absolutely. I remember when we first or the last time we chatted, I was sharing with you that it’s always been my dream to have a lavender farm. And I. I’m like, I’m talking to a woman who’s living one of my dreams here. So it’s like. So it’s like I’m going to live vicariously through you a little bit, Julie.

0:01:43 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: Okay. Yeah. You know what? And it. And it’s funny because if you would have asked me if this is where I would have been, I would have laughed. So.

0:01:51 Amanda Stassen: Oh, my goodness. Well, actually, let’s start there. Let’s start with the origin of where Hereward Farms came from. Take us back to two to three years before the idea came to you. Like, were you in the farming business or cosmetics manufacturing? What were you doing?

0:02:07 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: So I owned a marketing agency.

0:02:10 Amanda Stassen: Okay. We’re like, living. I’m living their life here, except I don’t have the farm yet.

0:02:16 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: Yeah. You know what? If you want to buy it, it’s yours. It’s yours.

0:02:20 Amanda Stassen: You never know.

0:02:21 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: Yeah. So we’ve Always lived here, and we do cash crops. It’s so my husband’s side of the family. Five generations have been at this farm. I think they farm over 10,000 acres now. And, but we lived on the farm, but we just lived here. We didn’t really do anything. And then one, when Covid hit, we weren’t traveling, we weren’t doing anything. And I thought, well, what, what would happen if we put lavender. Don’t ask me. I’ve never been to a lavender farm.

0:02:54 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: It was. I don’t know where the. I, I, I, honestly, sometimes you just got to listen to that, to that little voice in your head that goes, well, what’s the harm? There’s. There’s no harm. There’s no money that I’m going to get lost. You know, I think the first 40 plants cost me maybe, maybe 100 bucks. Maybe. Maybe, right? So let’s have fun. And I think that takes the pressure off of where it’s gonna kind of go.

0:03:22 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: And then it’s my husband’s fault because I was very busy with the marketing agency, because during COVID everybody was busy spending grants and actually had time to do the things that they couldn’t do. And so when everyone kept saying they were relaxed during COVID I’m like, must be nice. We’re a little crazy. But we did on the side, when I finished growing the lavender and taking courses and kind of put my energy into that, we.

0:03:48 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: I made product because I did take cosmetology a million years ago at Humber College.

0:03:53 Amanda Stassen: Okay.

0:03:54 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: I did nothing with it. I went into marketing instead. And so I kind of pulled out that thought process and just kind of got back into learning. And that kind of gives that point of, you never stop learning. Like, you have to keep, you know, it’s, it’s constant. And, and we sold out and, and warranted it was everyone I kind of knew that was just supporting what we were doing. And then my husband said, let’s plant 3,000 lavender plants. And I was like, are you crazy? Like, where are we going with this? Like, this is fun.

0:04:30 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: But I didn’t have, like, an end goal. And, and away we went. And I think it was. It was such a nice way of my kids being involved. My husband, we nickname him Mr. Lavender. Yeah. And I think Mr. And Mrs.

0:04:47 Amanda Stassen: Lavender.

0:04:48 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. He. I think he was happy to be back in the land. Right. Because he has an engineering firm. He, you know, we lived here, but we didn’t really do a lot. It was taken care of for. So I think it Was, it was a really nice. Taking us back to that route of farming and then, yeah, then it just, then it just like, I don’t even, I, we were talking about today, like, and I get emotional with it because where did it, where did it start? And kind of where does it keep going? And it just kind of blows my mind. So.

0:05:26 Amanda Stassen: Yeah, yeah, no, I love that and I, I love that it’s, there’s an element of serendipity. Like you’re in the right place at the right time. You’re, you’re using what you have, um, some of your background that, you know, millions of years ago or whatever that you were, that you were at school and you had done some work in there. But basically it, it, it came from this idea of we have the space, I’m going to plant these plants.

0:05:51 Amanda Stassen: And then next thing you know you have this whole line of what you now call farm to skin, lavender infused skin and home products. And, and I want to get into the how you did that and the mechanics of it maybe a little bit later. But what I want to know is when you reflect on it, what would you describe as your why? What’s the purpose or the why behind why you continue to build and what you continue to do?

0:06:21 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: So I think one of the big things that kind of came through when people started to walk through my doors was I got to care for people in, in a way of conversation or how I wrapped their stuff in store or how I shipped. And I still like, I laugh, I hand write every note. Still, like four years later, you still get a handwritten note. And it’s getting to a point where I’m like, I can’t keep up, but I don’t want to lose that. And so I think my deep root for wanting people to feel like someone cares and not just another number, because that’s kind of how we’ve evolved in a sense, right? Like there’s no care when you go shopping or there’s no, you’re just another number. And so I have some very deep rooted relationships with some of my clients that are 4 years old or someone that’s just walked through my door now.

0:07:12 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: And it, and it really is the core of who we are because we don’t just offer product, we offer conversation. Like, I have one client that Facebook messages me her order. I send her order before she even pays. She just sent me an early Christmas gift. Like, that’s my, that’s my relationship and that’s what keeps me going. Knowing that we’re touching people and I get to do it and I get to do whatever I want in a sense to make people feel a little bit of love.

0:07:42 Amanda Stassen: So. Yeah, and, and that’s your, that’s your personal purpose. And it’s, it, it sounds like it’s really woven into the, into the, the business brand as well. Like do. How much of it is woven into it.

0:07:56 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: Yeah, and it’s, and it’s, and sure it’s. And it’s about sustainability and it’s about clean beauty and a clean home. I didn’t wanna, I didn’t want us to be drag worthy forward because it is such a touchy subject. You know, using the word organic is, people don’t necessarily believe it. And do you believe clean beauty? Do you believe it’s going to do the things it’s going to do? You know, and I’m, I don’t use all natural all the time. I use retinol products. I use. And so my customers are the same way. So I didn’t want to be like this is what you have to be.

0:08:26 Amanda Stassen: Right.

0:08:27 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: Add this in, you’ll see the difference. But it was never in competition. It wasn’t. It was kind of like how I think it makes people happy and better to use clean products and know that it’s affordable and it’s not just this blonde, blue eyed blonde showing sustainability like in that, that marketing.

0:08:47 Amanda Stassen: Yeah.

0:08:47 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: And, and I want it to be affordable. I mean I’ve had retailers go, you could charge double. And I’m like, yeah, but I don’t want to.

0:08:54 Amanda Stassen: Right.

0:08:54 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: Like why? Yeah, it, it’s, it’s at a good price what I would pay for.

0:09:00 Amanda Stassen: So yeah, I love asking the question about purpose and why. Because really in entrepreneurship, which, which is hard on the best of days, without a real clear understanding of your purpose and your why, you just, you can’t weather the valleys and the storms that come with entrepreneurship. And Friedrich Nietzsche said he had this really famous quote that I love. He said, he who has a why to live can bear almost any how. When I would, I would add the what, not just the how, but the what that inevitably comes their way. So it, it sounds like the, the brand, the here word brand is really built around building relationships and, and building those transparent conversations and, and treating people like human beings and not a number. I love that.

0:09:51 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: Yeah.

0:09:51 Amanda Stassen: Yeah.

0:09:52 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: Like everyone that walks through the door, it’s a conversation. And I, and I am sometimes when people don’t want to have a chat, I’m kind of like, okay, I’ll let you. But most times it is a full conversation. And it, and so for me to be in the store, I can’t get any work done because it. That’s like a lot of times people are coming to see me or have that conversation or. I just, I’m not ready to let that go.

0:10:14 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: I have a million things to do because as an entrepreneur you have a million rules as you grow. But I think like I. That passion, if, when you start a business, you gotta have that passion. You’ve got to have that grit. And, and it’s not all about what you put in financially. A lot of. It’s the energy, it’s the, you’ve got to feel it in your. Because when you’re in that valley, because it goes up and down regularly, you gotta, you’ve gotta withstand that storm and, and know that brighter days are ahead. I think there’s a song about that. But, but you, you know, and then when you, and then when you hit that brighter spot, you go, yep, this is why. Where I am and this is why I’m doing.

0:10:56 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: But you need that to get through the next storm because it’s always coming. It’s always coming.

0:11:02 Amanda Stassen: Totally, totally, totally. There’s. It’s like peaks and valleys and peaks and valleys. Now, you know, there are a lot of stats around the natural skincare market. I mean there’s tons of them. But according to a latest report that I read, straights research talks about the global organic skincare market being valued at around, I think it was like 10 billion in 2021 and it’s predicted to reach like 21 billion by 2030.

0:11:30 Amanda Stassen: So this is great because it means that there’s growing demand, but it also means that there’s more and more entrance and more competition in the market. And a lot of entrepreneurs, you know, are scared off by that competition, believing that, you know, it’s less opportunity and it’s. There’s too much noise. But you dove right in and I’m curious about your perspective on compet.

0:11:54 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: That’s a good one. I, I joke. I have no competition because I stay on my own path. Right. So I don’t pay attention to. Because, you know, we have two sides of the business. We have the lavender farm, but the agritourism is tiny because it’s more about the product. And so I stay on my path. I kind of stay out of the noise of what’s that person doing? Because it’s an easy place to get sucked into. Yeah, I do pay attention to news.

0:12:23 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: You know, I get my Google News update in the morning to Kind of go, oh, what’s, what’s going on? But I, I listen, I think I listen more to trends. My customers, my customer. Like a lot of products that I roll out, people will ask, I’ll be like, hey, I’ll put it on the list. And it may come to fruition, it may not. But I’m just doing my thing. Like, I, I know I’m in a multi billion dollar industry and I am like the smallest speck, but that doesn’t make me afraid of, like, our growth.

0:12:56 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: And, and, you know, and I think with any business like two years in, you kind of have an identity crisis of like, where am I going? And when our wholesale business blew up, I’m like, oh, this is where we need to be. Sure, we have a retail side, but wholesale’s where it is for us. And we share space with some big brands. Where I’m like, okay, but then there’s that other side of it. You know, someone goes, would you love to be in Sephora? And I’m like, I don’t know if that’s like, how, how do you manage that soft gooeyness that we have associated with their brand to then be so. Because then it’s out of my hand.

0:13:31 Amanda Stassen: Hands off. Yeah.

0:13:33 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: And what happens to the quality? What happens to my brand? What happens to my baby? So I take every step. I don’t have a goal. People go, what’s your goal in two years? I can’t answer that because tomorrow it may change. Right? Like, we’re putting in a cafe. That literally was a, hey, we already serve tea sometimes. Why don’t we just put in a cafe? And now I have a full kitchen in my store, so, you know, like, sometimes it’s. That’s all it is. But we are small spec, and I’m okay with that.

0:14:05 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: I’m okay with where we are. I think that’s. You have to be comfortable where you are and not always trying to get to the next thing.

0:14:14 Amanda Stassen: Like, and I love that because it really speaks to this idea of knowing what, where you’re positioned and knowing what your differentiation is and, and providing that to the best of your ability. So how did you, how did you find your differentiator? Like, what, how did you, how did you learn what that is?

0:14:34 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: I don’t, That’s a good question. I, I think it was never driven by finance, so it was never, you know, when I sit in my tax meetings, which bore me to know, and they’re talking to me and I don’t. That’s not why I’m doing what I’m doing, it’s more about how can I get this into more people’s homes effectively? And. And continuing. Like, I love having new customers, but the ones that keep coming back are the ones that are continually helping my business grow.

0:15:09 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: So my. My investment is in that. So you get lots of treats when you’re one of those people, and I owe it to them. There’s. There’s a circle. You know, the. When you start up a business, you have very close people around you, but it’s the ones outside of that, that kind of. When you launched your business, there’s a new circle that lifts you up. And. And. And I wouldn’t be anywhere without that circle at all.

0:15:39 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: And. And when. When someone. There’s. When. When someone goes, did you ever look back and pat yourself on the back for everything that you’ve done because you’re just always moving forward? And I said, no. And they’re like, well, you need to do that. Like, that’s your reverse bucket list. Oh. Because I don’t have, like, a bucket list, but the reverse bucket list. I’m like, wow. Like, and I get emotional about where we’ve been and what we did. Like, when. When we were on the front page of the Globe and Mail. I almost, like, I almost. I’m like, what?

0:16:12 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: Like, who, who what? Like, like, like, that was never, like, I want to be there. And so I think my appreciation and that. That, like, my husband says I don’t brag enough, but I don’t need to, because it, like, it just fills my heart that we’re on the right path and the energy we’re putting into this, it’s getting recognized. And so I don’t need to step on a podium and scream it. It’s already there. It’s already speaking for me.

0:16:40 Amanda Stassen: Right, Right. Well, let’s talk about what fueled your growth, though, because clearly you’ve done tremendously. And for the four years that you’ve been doing it, what would you say is the most important investment you feel you made in the business that really helped you guys to grow marketing?

0:17:00 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: Like, it was. It was. I remember taking the growers. It was like a lavender growers course. And. And I’m watching all this stuff, and the technical stuff’s going over my head, because that’s my husband. Right. But I’m like, I want to know. And the one thing they said is the biggest downfall of lavender farmers is they don’t know how to market. I’m like, well, I owned a marketing agency. How hard can this Be.

0:17:22 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: And. And that’s all I’ve done. Like, when someone says you don’t have to do any marketing, like 80% of my job is marketing. And. And when I started out, I had. I was hidden behind the brand because they didn’t want Herewood Farms to be. Because I had it because I already had a business. I already. Right. And so then someone goes, when are you coming out? And I’m like, oh, I don’t know. I’m not sure I want to. I’m not. I want Herewood Farms to have its own legs.

0:17:48 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: But then it triggered me when a friend said, did you hear about a new lavender farm that opened? It’s up near you. He went, that is me. And I thought, oh, I better. So I think putting your face forward and always being social and very real with my audience and relatable and use social for what it is to be social with it. I mean, it takes up a big chunk of my day, but marketing is probably the biggest investment in my time and money, to be completely honest. And the success of it, because it’s always moving. And what’s the next best thing that we can do to help promote and bring awareness?

0:18:30 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: Because I see brands. If you don’t know about us in or any other business, the marketing is the only way that you’re gonna. Right. So that it is. And then our product like that. Sometimes when someone goes, when are you gonna launch a new product? I’m like, it can take six months to a year because I’m testing it. I may not like it. I gotta source packaging. I have to do all these things. So it’s not a constant. Let’s just pump out something new or being driven by sales. Right. So you know, a lot of retailers, every day you’re getting an email that there’s a sale and you’re like, well, what’s the bonus to me if every day you’re having a sale?

0:19:10 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: We’re not built on that. We’re built on. You’re going to buy when you need to buy and if there’s a sale, it’ll kind of. You’ll be excited. So.

0:19:19 Amanda Stassen: Right, right. So was there any specific marketing that you did that you felt really took it to the next level or. Or said differently, like, what would you recommend for entrepreneurs to really lean into?

0:19:35 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: I think the first stage is ensuring you have a fabulous website and the SEO is done effectively because it’s. You can just put it up like a coat of paint, but if it’s not the right paint, it’s going to chip off. So. And it’s not. You’ve put all that effort I and spending your money effectively. And that goes back to me owning an agency. Right. So when we would see clients all the time that come in, they’d be like, oh, I spent $10,000 on this website. I’m like, but how are you building this in stages? Or it wasn’t allowing you to build in stages and you’re starting all over again. So having that where you’re always constantly adding. So the website don’t rely on social media ads, don’t spend the money if you don’t have to. Like there’s a lot of other engagement things that you can do.

0:20:19 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: The thing that took us to the next level was doing retailer wholesale shows. Like that took us to a whole other level and we stopped doing any consumer shows. That’s not effective use of our time. Some people is, I think let’s just.

0:20:34 Amanda Stassen: Break that down for a second. Just because some people may not know what. So what’s the difference between a consumer show and a retail wholesaler show?

0:20:41 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: Like a consumer like a market farmer’s market. And we started there. It was great because we, a lot of people still buy our products that found us there. But we moved on from that. And so a retailer shows like a. The canned gift show. So all the retailers come out and that’s where they do their buying twice a year. Those two shows never out of my calendar. Like we are constantly there. We do very well.

0:21:05 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: That’s where we launched into the Tara Greenhouses and kind Matters. Like we got six locations. Like that was huge for us. Like I’m like, is this really happening that like now we’re in like as a chain? Yeah. And it was because of that show and it was because of the last day where everyone complains that so slow. No, it was great for us but. But that took us to a whole other level and, and opened our eyes to okay, what’s. Where do we want to put our time and effort into?

0:21:33 Amanda Stassen: So yeah, yeah, yeah. So on. On that topic of investing you built here, word. Was it purely self funded or did you also have outside investment? How did you. How did you shape the. The actual investment part of it?

0:21:51 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: So I literally took my check when I sold my agency and put it right into Hero Farm. So we’re. I’m 100 self funded and. And I think as an entrepreneur, like I don’t get a paycheck. Like my staff all get a paycheck. I put everything back into it. I don’t like it, everything goes in, goes back in. But that’s how we’re able to grow or have buying power to do a lot of things to save money down the road.

0:22:20 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: You have to be prepared for that because it’s a scary leap. Like if someone’s working full time to go, I’m not going to get a paycheck every two weeks. Yeah, you don’t need that added stress. You got to be sure that you’ve got that to kind of carry you.

0:22:31 Amanda Stassen: Yeah.

0:22:32 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: Do I have a credit line? Absolutely. Like, you need that to run a business. But that’s not funding. It was just, I, I rolled everything in. So everyone’s like, what’d you do with your money? I’m like, it went over there. Like it’s, it’s, it’s back in. It didn’t leave my hands kind of thing. So there are grants and everything else. I think we did a digital Main street grant to help with some SEO, but that was really it.

0:22:57 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: So there’s a, there are a lot of grants. Like I, People ask me, they’re like, what grants? And I’m like, here’s a big long list. Especially if you’re a woman, there are tons of grants out there for you, so take advantage of them. Just be wary. There is a tax implication. You will have to pay tax on it, which no one really talks about. But at the end of the year, you don’t want to get hit with that.

0:23:17 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: But yeah, so it’s. I’m in a different. I mean, I was lucky enough to be able to sell something, to start something else, to fund it.

0:23:25 Amanda Stassen: So yeah, yeah. I mean, there’s pros and cons to self funding versus getting outside investment. And you know, you mentioned this idea of being comfortable where you are. And so there’s this movement towards slower growth as opposed to that hockey stick fast growth. And I’d love to hear your perspective on slow growth.

0:23:49 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: I love slow growth. I don’t, I. Because it’s great if you grow fast, but if you can’t keep up to that, then it starts to break down. And, and you know, we’re still small batch. Like I’m still making product, you know, up to 300, you know, items per sku. If, if I have an order that comes in a wholesale order, it can wipe my whole store. So I have to manage that. And I don’t, you know, and my husband’s like, oh, we need to do this and this. And I’m like, yeah, but then how do we meet that demand?

0:24:24 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: Like, how, how does what’s getting sacrificed? Quality. The fact we can’t get an order out within a week. Are we going to have to start, you know, where I’m very. I pride ourselves on a small business to not have order minimums for other small businesses because it’s tough when someone goes, I need a, you know, a 500 order for your first order. Well, that’s a lot of money. And for, you know, for a retailer, do you move away from that because you can’t keep up? So I like slow growth because then I can plan.

0:24:56 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: Um, and it’s funny because as impersonal, I am a. I’m a. I’m a rock jumper across the water. Like, I don’t. I don’t hesitate. But when it comes to this business, I kind of sit back and go, hmm. And I’ve learned some valuable lessons. Like I, you know, I went to a trade show consumer, one that cost me in the end. I thought I was going to make $50,000 that weekend because of everything that they talked about. And I made $300 and I had invested 10.

0:25:26 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: So that hurt like that. And. And I remember crying. And my husband goes, let’s just pack up. And I go, nope, we’re going to get through this weekend. We’ve learned a very valuable lesson, and we will never be in this again. And I’ve never spoken about that trade show because I don’t want to trash it. But when someone tells me they’re going, I’m like, please don’t. But it’s. And I think as an entrepreneur, there’s a lot of opportunists.

0:25:48 Amanda Stassen: Yeah.

0:25:49 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: To get your money or to participate. So it’s navigating that, too. Like, that sounds really great. You can give me 5,000 dol. Thousand new followers. Well, that’s not, you know, it’s not organic. It’s going to kind of backfire on you. But there’s all these opportunities. It’s. It’s like the late night TV was, you know, where they, you know, all these magic commercials come on at late night. It’s like that sometimes, and you have to navigate that. And it’s a lot.

0:26:15 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: What’s the right move? What’s the right influencer? What’s the right. What’s. What’s the right? I had a PR agency at one point, but they weren’t telling my story the way I don’t want to just talk about my products. There’s us and our story. And so we’ve been without a PR agency for two years, and we’ve done Better, but, but I’m able to tell my story a little bit better. Right. So, yeah, so just it’s being how you spend that money and, and if it seems too good to be true, it probably is.

0:26:49 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: Yeah. And navigating that is really, it’s sharky waters out there a little bit.

0:26:55 Amanda Stassen: And I’m so glad you said that because there’s such a focus on scaling and scaling fast and growing fast. And in that place you sometimes feel like you have to take those shortcuts. So when somebody comes in and says, and I love the example you gave about the followers, you know, there’s tons of those opportunists, if you will, that say we can give you a hundred thousand followers, you know, just accept whatever.

0:27:18 Amanda Stassen: And at the end of the day, slow growth allows you to make better decisions. Like it actually allows you to pause. And the pause is good. Sometimes you want to take advantage of opportunities, but you also want to do them in a, in a way that’s wise. Right. So I love that that you said that. I want to go back to something that you said earlier. Actually, two things, but I’ll start with this one. So founders, founder, entrepreneurs struggle with like many, many things, and one of them is imposter syndrome.

0:27:49 Amanda Stassen: And so they, they throw all their energy and focus on building and operating the business, but really at the end of the day, what they’re doing is really what you described as hiding behind the brand. I’d love for you to talk about your experience with imposter syndrome and actually hiding behind the brand. What, what was that? And what were you really doing there?

0:28:12 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: Yeah, no, it’s. I don’t think imposter syndrome ever goes away. I think like when I got asked to speak at the Advancing Women in Agriculture conference, I was thinking, I was in like a little room and they’re like, no, you’re on the main stage. I’m like, oh, I don’t belong here. Like, I, like I’ve been to the conference and, and so that self doubt, which is I think is also grounding because I think if you think that you are there, you’ve lost something.

0:28:39 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: Like, I think you always have to have a little bit of it.

0:28:42 Amanda Stassen: Okay. Okay.

0:28:42 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: Yeah, a little bit. Right. Elizabeth Gilbert, in her book I’m going to quote and but I’ll do horrible job of it is because it feeds into that apostle syndrome. She said fear’s allowed to come along for the ride, but fear is not allowed to change. The radio station is not allowed to tell you where to go, but you have to know it’s here and, and, and I’ve made some leaps that I’m like, I don’t know. And sometimes it’s been good and sometimes it’s been bad.

0:29:09 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: I still like. And I’ll go back to that point. I don’t know whose life I’m living. Like, I don’t. It’s, it’s, it’s all come together. And I don’t think anything in my life has been this easy, like working for someone or. Sure, the agency was, but it was different. Like, this is, like, this is my baby. And I’ve. It’s a little bit different in so many emotional ways. And I’m always going to have imposter syndrome.

0:29:35 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: I always am because I never thought I was the smartest person in the room. Now I am. And it’s still. Sometimes I doubt myself and think, no, I know what I’m doing. Like, but it’s, it gives you a new, renowned, like, confidence. But. And if you don’t keep your feet on the ground, I think you lose it. And then.

0:29:57 Amanda Stassen: Right.

0:29:58 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: I don’t know. It’s. It’s a. But staying in your path. I always say it all the time. I’m like, just stay in your path. Yeah, you’ll be fine. You know, you can. Yeah. Like, don’t worry about what everyone else is doing. Like, you’ll know you can, you can, you can get inspiration or you can do whatever you want, but just don’t let that drive your decisions.

0:30:15 Amanda Stassen: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And now kind of in hindsight, why would you. Why is getting out from behind the brand one of the most important things that a founder can do for their business?

0:30:28 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: Because it’s, it’s social and, and connecting with people. And it’s, it’s such a way to communicate without just telling you what I’m doing. By, like, here’s my product and here’s what it does. And, and even when I’m social, I don’t. I usually make kind of funny videos or, you know, or it’s not just about my product. And I, and sometimes I do show. I’m like, should I do a video on showing you how to put the lotion on? But you know that you know how to put. Like, you don’t need to see me put lotion all over my body.

0:31:02 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: But I, But I am. And it’s funny because I’m going to tell you a funny story because women can sometimes be tough. So I did a post on a Sunday. Sundays are my day off, and I was by the pool yeah. And I was taking a picture like this. So I was in my bathing suit and so I was like, you know, you work on, you work off, but as an entrepreneur, it’s really, you’re never really off, right? And she told me I was so off brand and how disgusting it was that I was in a bathing suit. And I was like.

0:31:31 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: And it hurt my feeling where I was like, oh my gosh, like, should I have not posted? And I thought, no, now you fired me up because I’m actually human and I actually, like, so now we joke all the time when I do hashtag on brand and, and it’s not anything to do with my business. But she fired me up because I was like, you’re tearing me down because you think I’m not on brand, but this is my brand. Like, I am part of this.

0:31:56 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: I am. Like, I am. I have, there’s people, you know, they, they get little glimpses into my life. And, and there is a fine line, right? Because if you start unleashing on social media as a brand, like, you start bringing more personal stuff that really has nothing to, that’s a tough one. And sometimes brands, you, you get into that, no one wants to hear it. Do it on your personal page. But I think people like to connect, especially when that there’s someone real behind something and, and it gets lost if you don’t. I, I, I, probably our, most of our success has come from just being real and being out in the open. And here we are like, and I haven’t really, you know, TikTok can be a little mean and they haven’t been mean to me yet.

0:32:48 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: So I will take it. I will take it. Yeah.

0:32:52 Amanda Stassen: So what tips would you have for, you know, entrepreneur or an entrepreneur who’s struggling with, you know, getting out from hiding behind the brand? What would you say is a way.

0:33:03 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: To start, be your authentic self. Like even just on social, like, start showing those glimpses. And it, and it’s, and when I used to do the videos of myself, it’s very overwhelming because you’re, you’re critiquing yourself and you’re criticizing and that imposter syndrome’s in your head going, you look ridiculous. You gotta throw that out the window. And, and it still has to be relative to your business.

0:33:26 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: And, and I like to share things. And it kind of rolls into. Because I think influencers have changed. It’s not just the opening the package and tapping on the box. There’s more of that experience side of it. And if those influencers haven’t evolved, they’re left behind. And those are the ones that are messaging you instead of a lot of like, I. And so I do share my experiences. Like, I was out for lunch today, and so I tagged the restaurant I was in because I thought, you know what? I, I don’t even know how many followers. 9,000 followers.

0:34:00 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: Maybe some of them are in Burlington. Maybe some of them want to eat at this delicious restaurant we’ve been at that shows real. That I’m actually doing something and I actually eat and that I’m actually promoting another business. And that kind of goes into collabs. Like, I collab with a lot of businesses and I share that a lot. And, and, and picking those people that you collab with have to have the same energy or the same goal in mind. Right.

0:34:29 Amanda Stassen: Right.

0:34:29 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: So.

0:34:29 Amanda Stassen: Right.

0:34:30 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: But, yeah, you gotta get out of that. You, you, you really have to be you. And it can’t just be emails. It’s. It’s social. But you’ve gotta keep it where it’s still attached to your business and it’s still. And you can have fun. Don’t be afraid of it. But, you know, it’s. I mean, look, if you look at your feed and this is what I say, because you gotta. We used to call this at McDonald’s the burger brain, because people forgot that there’s a world outside McDonald’s when they work there.

0:34:55 Amanda Stassen: Yeah.

0:34:56 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: Sometimes we have to step out of our business to go, well, what do I like to see? And look at what you follow and look at why you’re following someone and, and, you know, why are you following, you know, like, Neil Patel, because you like his information and you like hearing him talk. It’s not just a bunch of posts that are quoted and that’s what you’re reading. So look at. I always tell people, look at what you’re. You’re following and what you like, because probably that’s what your audience is going to like too, especially if you’re in that category or in that area. But it’s, it’s a lot of. It’s research for me. I’m like, oh, I really like that there’s a furniture antique place I follow in Missouri that I wish it was here because I’d buy everything in their store. But I love the way they put everything together.

0:35:42 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: And so you kind of get inspired by that to go, oh, I love all your videos. And it has nothing. It’s not goofy. And it’s not just them mimicking words and doing that kind of stuff. Yeah, it’s just the quality, and you’ve showed me in a cute little snippet, and I get a taste and I can relate to what you’re offering me. And it’s moved on. You have respected my time.

0:36:01 Amanda Stassen: Yes. Yes.

0:36:03 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: Yeah.

0:36:04 Amanda Stassen: And, you know, speaking of the whole coming out from hiding behind your brand, you. You are the face of the brand. And. And you’ve done a phenomenal job with pr. And, you know, in just a short time, you’ve had features in Vogue magazine and Vanity Fair and so many more. What is your secret?

0:36:27 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: If I.

0:36:28 Amanda Stassen: Because you said you had a PR agency and now you’re doing better without them.

0:36:32 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: Yeah, Yeah. I think it’s just it. It was luck where Vanity Fair reached out to us first, and then we’ve just kept. Maintained that relationship. It is pay to play. Like, a lot of. Some of the things are, like being in, like that Globe and Mail feature and the trust. That was not a paid feature. That just happened from an interview of exposure. So, no, every little ounce of exposure is great because the more you get out there, I check all the time.

0:37:00 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: Like, I’m googling Herewood farms all the time to see what’s getting picked up or where else can I kind of. So it. It’s a lot of work. And, you know, you’ve got to learn how to write press releases. And thank goodness for Chat GPT, because if you’re an entrepreneur and you’re not using Chat GPT, you have to edit everything. So please, everyone, don’t just copy and paste. But it’s a good start, and it’s such a great tool.

0:37:26 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: But press releases have helped end probably our community involvement. So we give a lot back to the community. I don’t hesitate if someone asked me to participate in anything that’s helping to raise money for any. Anything in our community. But it is perseverance and it’s knowing which ones are good ones and which ones aren’t. And that is a formulation that I don’t even know what that. So what fits? What feels right?

0:38:01 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: You know, I’ve. I’ve spent money on ads that haven’t done anything. One of. One of my, like, one of my big ones is the billboard. It does amazing for me. I’m never giving up that billboard. But if you would have asked me, when I own the agency, if a client said, I’m gonna do a billboard, I’m like, really? Like, what are you gonna get from that? So sometimes the ideas stick to the wall. So there’s no. I don’t think I. I don’t have a clear answer to go. This is how you’re going to get to where we have been.

0:38:28 Amanda Stassen: Yeah.

0:38:28 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: I have just taken advantage of opportunities that fit and align. We used to work with a lot of influencers. I now work with influencers that don’t even ask us for money anymore. They just want product and they do these amazing features. And I’m actually more honored than them going, here’s your thousand dollar check to talk about me. Yeah. And that’s the difference. Like once you kind of overcome that, you get a lot of people that just like when people want to come to the fields, I don’t have to pay them.

0:38:56 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: They’re doing the advertising for me now because it’s helping their brand.

0:39:00 Amanda Stassen: Yeah.

0:39:00 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: So they do get spoiled when they get here. They get big bags of stuff, but there’s no financial gain either way. Right, Right. But it’s finding people that are. And I asked them, I’m like, what brands do you other, you know, represent? Because sure, I could hop on any influencer and then find out, oh, they just work with bands that are not clean or so it doesn’t really fit or it’s not my audience. And I say, and I say no more than I say yes with that. And so we don’t do a lot it, it’s me and it. And we do do social ads and we do. But I, I do a lot of my writing. Blogs and SEO is probably my biggest where it gets out there. So when you look up products that were coming up, like, it’s a lot of underneath legwork.

0:39:50 Amanda Stassen: So, yeah, I like how you’ve, you have articulated that. It’s a lot of trial and error and it’s a trying stuff. Seeing what sticks to the wall, seeing what kind of return you get, not being afraid to put things out there and having the courage and the boldness to write a press release and say, hey, we’ve come up with something. And then following up and building those relationships, I think that’s, there’s a lot of persistence that goes into things like getting publicity.

0:40:20 Amanda Stassen: So I think that that’s a really, really good point that you’ve, you’ve, you’ve highlighted.

0:40:25 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: And I take the same angle with products.

0:40:27 Amanda Stassen: Yeah.

0:40:28 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: Like when we, when I launch a new product, there’s not like a huge investment where I’m kind of like, okay, let’s try it out. And some things I think are like, okay, that’s really cute. And then it takes off and I’m like, oh, that, you know, that surprises me. It’s the same with marketing for me, where I’m like, okay, let’s try it out. Let’s see what happens. And if it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work. Right.

0:40:48 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: So.

0:40:48 Amanda Stassen: Yeah, yeah, yeah, listen, this has been really great, but before we wrap up, I want to ask, I ask all of our guests this, you know, what two practical tips would you share that would help leaders and entrepreneurs purposefully accelerate their business and brand growth today?

0:41:09 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: I think staying in your own path, I’m not going to say it like you have to be authentic. And if you lose that, if you just start up something because someone else is doing it, you better do it different. Like I use the restaurant analogy. There’s. There can be 50 restaurants in a town, but everybody’s doing it different. They all serve the same thing. They serve food and drink.

0:41:30 Amanda Stassen: Yeah.

0:41:31 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: So how are you doing it differently and how are you making it that experience? So when someone walks through the door, they’re always choosing you. They have to eat right. So staying in your path, like, just don’t worry about what everyone else is doing. Like, I could be surrounded, my whole feed could be, you know, surrounded by my competitors and, and then I’m consumed with, well, they’re doing this or they’re doing this or they’re copying me or.

0:41:52 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: Yeah, no, I have, I don’t have the energy for that. Collab and partnerships, huge. And if you are in a community, whether you’re in a small town or big, because there’s still inner communities, if you’re not part of that, you’re going to get forgotten. You, you are just going to be another business. And so that emotional side to be community and linked to the community, you got to give back. You. Absolutely.

0:42:19 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: I think the awareness from. In our community was giving back and being part of that and being very present. And then I think, I think those, yeah, like the community and the stay on your own path. Those are the two big things, like aside finances and marketing. Those two things.

0:42:40 Amanda Stassen: Yeah. No, that’s really great. I think, I think the way that you describe this idea of staying in your own path is be true to who you are. Lean into what, what is your value proposition? What is your differentiator? What makes you different? What makes people choose you? I like the way that you said that. And then being involved and engaged in that community is a great place to start telling your story. And then having people learn about you and, and it’s, it yields so much.

0:43:10 Amanda Stassen: So where can people learn more and buy from hereward farms? What are your social links Yep.

0:43:17 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: So Herewood farms on Instagram and Facebook, and then herewoodfarm.com is our website. And we also have a boutique that’s open all year round on our farm. So you get to experience. Experience the whole thing.

0:43:31 Amanda Stassen: That’s awesome. And you’re just like two hours from.

0:43:34 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: Toronto, an hour and a half on a busy kind of date. Like, we’re in between Orangeville and Fergus, which is amazing. It’s. I was at a tourism meeting yesterday and I was explaining. I’m like, it’s great because people are coming up for a day and there’s so much between here in Toronto. Nice. And people continue on to Elora and they make a whole day of it. So.

0:43:53 Amanda Stassen: Nice.

0:43:54 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: Yeah.

0:43:54 Amanda Stassen: Nice. Julie, thank you so much for sharing your story, your experience and your insight. And in case you haven’t heard this today, thank you for living and sharing your purpose. The world is made better because of it. Thanks again.

0:44:08 Julie Thurgood-Burnett: Thank you so much.

0:44:09 Amanda Stassen: Hey, thanks for listening to this episode of the Purpose Power Brand Show. I love having these conversations with business leaders and entrepreneurs. Thanks for being here with me. I hope you learned something new and insightful. I know I did. I love what Julie talked about. Staying in your own lane and not worrying what your competition is doing. That’s about knowing who you are and what makes you different and unique and doubling down on that instead of just following what others are doing.

0:44:34 Amanda Stassen: This is the meat and potatoes of brand building. It’s the stuff that becomes your superpower when you lean into it. She also talked about this idea of hiding behind the brand, which is something a lot of founders and entrepreneurs do sometimes just as a way to deal with feelings. Feelings of imposter syndrome. Sure, it can be challenging. As an entrepreneur, you’re already juggling so much. You’re building the business, you’re operating the business.

0:44:57 Amanda Stassen: But the benefits of letting people see a glimpse of the human being building this brand is huge. Remember, people don’t fall in love and have a relationship with businesses. They have. They fall in love with people. So you got to let them see you so they can fall in love with you and your brand. Brand. So thanks again for being here with me. Until next time. Keep moving forward. Keep building. Keep growing.

0:45:22 Amanda Stassen: Keep sharing your vision. The world needs courageous entrepreneurs and leaders just like you, now more than ever. Bye for now.