Growth Levers, Canadian Market Challenges & Unlocking VC
Joe Jackman is the founder & CEO of Catapult Capital Partners, a venture capital firm focused on enabling founders to disrupt and scale their businesses effectively. Joe is also the Founder & the Executive Chair of Jackman Reinvents, North America’s leading transformation company specializing in reinventing businesses for growth and relevance.
Join Amanda and Joe, as they delve into strategies for securing venture capital and navigating market realities. Listen in as Joe shares insights on the art of pitching, the importance of a founder’s vision, and the unique challenges and opportunities for Canadian entrepreneurs.
In this episode we talk about:
How to balance conviction with flexibility in pitches
The ‘Prove & Move’ approach to success
Navigating shiny object syndrome
Why every entrepreneur should avoid ‘hockey stick’ growth projections
Learn more about Joe and Catapult Capital Partners at www.catapultpartners.vc
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Episode Transcription
0:00:00 Joe Jackman: In the zeal to present a picture of a business that has a lot of potential in front of is a series of ands. And you have to be careful with all the ands. We have, you know, more doors that we can sell our product through. We have not only physical channel, we’ve got digital channels, we’ve got DTC, our own, you know, E comm, platform, marketplaces, etc. And end and end and end and end. But ones are going to take you through the next stages of growth.
strong>0:00:41 Amanda Stassen: Welcome to the Purpose Power Brand show where we have conversations with leaders and brands transforming business into a force for good. I’m Amanda Stassen, business and brand strategist, entrepreneur and founder of Bisou Innovation. I’m speaking with business builders and entrepreneurs, the dreamers and the doers who are proving that not only does purpose drive profit, but the future of our world depends on it. Now, if you guys have been following the show, you know that part of our why is about sharing founders stories and spotlighting them. But another part is to deep dive into insights and tools to help entrepreneurs build and grow their business so they can impact the world for good and be the change that they want to be.
0:01:17 Amanda Stassen: I’ve been calling these mini master classes and we’ve covered topics like storytelling for impact, circular, economy, innovation, what it means to be a B corp. And today we’re going to dive into the world of venture capital and unpack the do’s and don’ts of positioning your business to get capital. Helping me dive into this today is global retail advisor and fellow reinventionist Joe Jackman. He’s the founder and CEO of Catapult Partners, a venture capital company that helps early stage founders disrupt and scale.
0:01:47 Amanda Stassen: He’s also the founder and executive chair of Jackman Reinvents, North America’s leading transformation Company. So if you’re wanting to set yourself up for some investment and you want to know what the magic sauce is that investors are looking for, you’re going to want to lean in and take some notes. Let’s get to it. Joe, so great to have you on the show. Thanks for being here.
0:02:08 Joe Jackman: It is my pleasure. Amanda, great to see you again.
0:02:11 Amanda Stassen: Awesome. Super excited actually for this mini masterclass on securing venture capital. I know it’s going to be eye opening for so many of the entrepreneurs and founders in our audience, so I’m super excited to dive right in.
0:02:25 Joe Jackman: Well, I’m glad to share whatever thoughts I can and it’s a treat to be on the podcast, so thanks for inviting me.
0:02:31 Amanda Stassen: Yeah, absolutely. Hey, listen, before we dive in, I want to, I want to. I like to set some context for the founder behind the business and so behind the VC in this case, because fundamentally, I believe that not only does everyone have a purpose, but that when this purpose is discovered and activated, it can be the greatest momentum builder of their life. So with that, what would you say is your personal purpose, and how does that influence the work that you’re doing at Catapult?
0:03:04 Joe Jackman: It’s a very, very big question to start, but I’ll give it my best shot. In the fewest words, I like to enable change. That’s really what I learned that I could do well over the course of my career. And the outcome of enabling change is to help, you know, fill in the blank. People, businesses, organizations, what have you become Their, their best and most powerful. And I would just tack on in the least amount of time possible because I, I found that, you know, change is indeed possible. It takes a mindset, which maybe we’ll talk about later, but.
0:03:45 Joe Jackman: But it can take a long time. And in the context of the world changing so fast, people with good ideas can see those ideas, you know, be taken forward by others or, you know, the evolution of a business proposition, you know, you can be working at that, and then you realize, oh, shoot, I lost the window, you know, for, for that to make a difference. And now I’m sort of back to where I started from. So I’m always putting things in the context of timelines and, you know, if I can be a catalyst or a catapult, as the VC I run is called, and enable that change to get to your most powerful outcome sooner, that makes me happy.
0:04:27 Amanda Stassen: No, I love that. So Catalyst and Catapult kind of are the two purpose words that I’m taking away from that. And I actually find the VC space really fascinating. It’s kind of like a combination of psychology and then it’s a bit like chance. It’s like betting on the right horse, so to speak. And, you know, while all VCs have similar evaluation criteria, some lean into one as kind of the magic sauce that they look for more than others. So, like, for some, it’s all about the founder and the founder. It doesn’t matter what they’re building. If you get the right founder, it’s going to succeed.
0:05:06 Amanda Stassen: Others are more into the. It’s the right trend. And so they only invest in specific places, like, for example, AI. And I want to dive into that magic sauce and what you believe that to be. But let’s, let’s Run through, through catapults, evaluation criteria first. What are they? Tell me a little bit about them and then how do you look through these as lenses into the business?
0:05:33 Joe Jackman: So maybe for context for your listeners, I came into venture capital not through the financial door, but through a side door. I’m not, I’m not a, you know, an investment banker in my career or a financial analyst or anything like that. I came to venture capital because I realized in working on large, mostly large scale legacy businesses with my firm that I founded called Jackman or Jackman Reinvents, I had pioneered with a whole group of folks, you at one time included, how to go about getting businesses back to, you know, growth and relevance.
0:06:19 Joe Jackman: Yeah, you know, very, very efficiently, very, very thoughtfully. And that was and is fantastic. And there’s a wonderful team that, that does that still. But I realized at one point that there was only a certain type of business that we were working with and those were, as I said, legacy businesses. So they’ve been around a long time successful and over time, you know, they, they get calcified and they, they run out of growth and, and don’t have the kind of resonance that they, they once did. So that’s what we did.
0:06:55 Amanda Stassen: Yeah.
0:06:56 Joe Jackman: And then I realized the whole world of disruption was, you know, going by and you know, I, we weren’t participating. And so I thought, well, the trouble with having a big, you know, skilled team of, you know, reinventionists, as we, we call ourselves, and, and those that are really able to unlock transformative growth is that unless you’re of a certain size and can afford a team to come and help you, yeah, you’re out of luck. And so that eliminated all the, you know, the early stage companies, founder led businesses.
0:07:32 Joe Jackman: So I created Catapult so that I could flip the script on the financial relationship and I could bring a smaller group of folks from Jackman with me and help founders figure out the path to growth and to greater muscle in the marketplace. I tell you that backstory because it really leads to the lens. And I think about it this way. I put some words to it very recently in an article I wrote. It’s one part math and two parts magic.
0:08:08 Joe Jackman: And you know, any, any pitch, any founder conversation where there is an opportunity for catapult to invest. The math matters, obviously. It’s, you know, what have you done? We usually look for businesses that are at least a million or a couple million dollars in sales very early. Businesses seldom have profitability at that early stage, but at least you can see some kind of path to profitability. And then there needs to be some evidence that the forecast in the next, usually three, sometimes longer, five years is believable.
0:08:50 Joe Jackman: You know, I look for reasons to believe in any financial projection or not. And, and all of that’s really important. And I have colleagues that, that do deeper analysis, you know, on the wherewithal for business to do what they intend to do and needs for capital and, and, etc.
0:09:08 Amanda Stassen: Yeah.
0:09:09 Joe Jackman: So the math, the magic for me is founders and you know, who they are, what is it that they believe in? Like I may, I’m a big believer in, I think the theme of your podcast or one of them that, you know, purpose led people and businesses tend to outperform eventually. And, and so what, you know, what’s the founder all about? Because we would work together. Like I’m, I’m an add value vc, I’m not just a check writer.
0:09:43 Amanda Stassen: Right.
0:09:44 Joe Jackman: And so, you know, what’s this person like? What would me and my team experience if we were to work together? So there is a, you know, a personal assessment, I suppose, a chemistry assessment. But the magic is, you know, what is it that they’re trying to achieve and why would I believe that that’s going to be not only successful but important?
0:10:04 Amanda Stassen: Yeah, yeah.
0:10:05 Joe Jackman: And you know, it doesn’t have to be like grand, you know, change the world ambitions, but I think it has to be something that means something. Yeah. You know, changing the way people eat, giving them better options for health and wellness. You know, there’s a lot of ways that you can find meaning and in turn find people that, that resonates with and fundamentally, you know, as a, as a one time marketer, I would say, you know, if you can get a shared set of beliefs and pursuits between, you know, those who create businesses and do what they do and those who consume them, if there’s a resonance on that sort of deep emotional level, the chances of success go up.
0:10:52 Amanda Stassen: Yeah.
0:10:52 Joe Jackman: And you know, then a lot of, you know, very, very practical things have to happen. And, and one of those things of course is strategy. And it’s, it’s part of, you know, it might sound technical in a way, but I see it as part of the magic.
0:11:06 Amanda Stassen: Yeah.
0:11:07 Joe Jackman: What is the path to, to growth and outside success? And oftentimes I would say there needs to be a starting point that would make sense, but oftentimes that’s what I’m actually coming in to help do is to get that clearer, maybe more precise and powerful. And then what’s the plan for growth and how do I help enable you to become your most powerful, your most successful. That’s how I think about making a selection of who to invest in.
0:11:39 Amanda Stassen: Yeah, I love that. I love that. Yes, there’s the math portion and then there’s predictability, and then there’s sort of these high potential product market fit areas and all that kind of jazz. But that at the end of the day, it comes down to the who, who is this and the, the power of the vision, if you will. And is this vision strong enough to almost magnetize others and therefore, you know, come into this, this world that they’re building of change?
0:12:09 Amanda Stassen: You mentioned that you had two elements of magic. What’s the second one?
0:12:16 Joe Jackman: So I think it’s the idea I, I feel like somewhere in the commentary on purpose is what is it that you’re doing or, or intending to do that will get people excited? And, and I think there’s magic in that. I remember years ago, back probably 2014, 15, first time I met Nicholas Richenbach, the founder of Flow and Flow Water. And you know, I, I very quickly decided that there was math that was solid enough. There was definitely financial proof of concept.
0:12:57 Amanda Stassen: Yeah.
0:12:57 Joe Jackman: And then there was a magic. And the magic was not only, you know, Nicholas, his energy and drive and what he could see, I could see through his lens, the outcome, but also this very, very bold idea of I’m going to build a water company with an insignificant environmental footprint compared to typical plastic bottled water. And part of the magic in that was I thought, well, in a world dominated by large water players, you know, the Nestle’s of the world, etcetera, that is a crazy, bold idea. Like, do you want to be really, you want to be competing in the water business?
0:13:47 Joe Jackman: Package water. And you know, it, it was daunting for sure. And I thought a long time about it, but, but it was also very exciting and very motivating. So, you know, as a David and Goliath moment, where I thought, well, you know, it lengthens the odds, but the, the success factor in it, you know, I’m a, sometimes a, a big believer in there’s energy and power in being a counter to the norm, you know, to being truly the disruptor.
0:14:22 Joe Jackman: Right. And I really got excited about that. So that, that caused me to, to not only invest, but, you know, to be on the private board for many years and then the, the public board.
0:14:34 Amanda Stassen: I love that. I love this idea of finding. What you’re describing is this enemy. A little bit of finding this enemy. So part of, part of that. Yeah, yeah, part of this enemy, part of this disruption is finding an enemy to sort of fight against. How, how important would you say that is in, in finding that magic sauce? Like if, if, if a founder has an idea or an entrepreneur has an idea and, but there’s not really something that they’re fighting. They’re, they’re not the David and Goliath.
0:15:05 Amanda Stassen: Do you think that that sort of restricts them or would you actually push them to find who that enemy is?
0:15:13 Joe Jackman: I think if it exists, it, it needs to be tapped into and harnessed. It’s, it’s a, you know, it’s a very much a marketing hack, a brand building hack. In a sense, everyone loves a fight and us versus them, an alternative. And the more tension there is in the, you know, the, the status quo and what’s new. There’s a lot of rich dimensionality that you can mine in building a brand and you can get noticed.
0:15:45 Amanda Stassen: Right.
0:15:45 Joe Jackman: That’s the benefit side of that. But if you don’t have one, I wouldn’t force it. I think of it as, you know, there’s the proposition itself and then there’s the positioning of the proposition. And I put, you know, this idea of an enemy definitely in the position side of the equation. You know, the proposition might be, look, it’s a better version that one than what’s come before, what’s available. Here’s why, here’s the functional benefits, here’s the emotional benefits.
0:16:15 Joe Jackman: But, but the other side of the equation is, and when you choose us, you’re actually not only building up the new, you’re helping to tear down the old. And the old is bad. You know, that’s the case with plastic bottled water. So it can be very, very helpful. The only watch out in that is you have to be careful not to tilt the brand Persona and the feel of how you show up and even messaging into the negative.
0:16:52 Amanda Stassen: Right?
0:16:52 Joe Jackman: You have to find a way to do it in a positive way so that people never feel, you know, worn out by, you know, okay, I’m, I’ve had it fighting the fight, you know, I want something that’s less stressful. I know positivity is powerful.
0:17:08 Amanda Stassen: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Especially because there’s a lot of demonization happening in the world today. It’s like people are getting fatigued, right? Like there’s you, us and them all the time. So you’re right there. You need to take care. If you’re going to step into that space and do it in a way that gives people tools and involves them as opposed to wears them out. Let’s talk a little bit about the. Yeah, sorry, go ahead.
0:17:32 Joe Jackman: Sorry. I was just going to say like put it, put it in an easy way to think about it is to put it in the political context.
0:17:37 Amanda Stassen: Yeah.
0:17:38 Joe Jackman: A lot, a lot of my work is south of the border and you know, I think about. It’s yes, it’s important to understand what you’re voting against, but it’s equally or sometimes more important to understand what you’re voting for.
0:17:50 Amanda Stassen: Yes.
0:17:51 Joe Jackman: And, and you know that, that, that’s a, that’s a, that’s a really simple equation to think about it.
0:17:57 Amanda Stassen: Yeah, yeah. And it’s, it’s actually there was, there was a quote, I think it was Mother Teresa that said, listen, if you invite me to an anti rally, I’m not going to show up, but invite me to a pro anything and I’ll be there. And Right. It’s like pro something, you know, you’re for something, what are you for as opposed to what are you against? I. That is such a powerful way to position it. I want to talk about a little bit about the do’s and don’ts of approaching VCs.
0:18:26 Amanda Stassen: What would you say in your time since you’ve built up catapult and even, I mean obviously I would say people would come to you and say have a great idea. But what have you, what have you seen or heard? Maybe the two most common mistakes that you’ve seen founders do or make that end up turning investors off or maybe even scaring them away. And I, I’d love for you to address this both from a practical perspective, but also from a mindset perspective. Because sometimes the way we position ourselves as the founders behind the idea can be a hindrance when people are listening to us sort of share the story.
0:19:05 Amanda Stassen: What are your thoughts on that?
0:19:09 Joe Jackman: So the best pitches, taking the advice we just arrived at, you know, let’s focus on the positive side and maybe touch on a few don’ts as well. But on the positive side, I think it’s, it’s striking the right balance between what your convictions are and what you’re focused on and believe will work.
0:19:30 Amanda Stassen: Yeah.
0:19:31 Joe Jackman: And being open to refinement and an outside input. And that’s a tough balancing act because you don’t. In front of an investor, you don’t want to be like, well, we got this far and I’m wide open to where we go to from here. That’s not the message you want to get across. You want some conviction around we’re doing the right things, we’re seeing the kind of results or progress. You know, we’re continually learning, refining, but we are always, particularly at different stages, looking to understand what’s the better way to do this or an alternate way to go about this.
0:20:09 Joe Jackman: That’s a really important message for VCs and private equity partners at a larger scale to hear because, you know, there used to be a time when it was dumb money. You know, it was just people who would look at the financials, you know, maybe mostly check out, you know, the founders and, and the plan, and then write the check on that merit. I think there’s a level of engagement across the investment world that really is more like partnerships of one kind or another. Sometimes it’s just, you know, the value we can add is help you raise more capital and deploy that capital effectively if it’s sort of in the mainstream financial.
0:20:50 Joe Jackman: But most VCs today have some kind of discipline, experience, base, sometimes simply because of working with many, many companies in similar circumstances that they can see patterns. They, they often can identify, you know, opportunities that maybe aren’t as apparent to founders. And all of that needs to land on a willing, you know, set of ears or several. That’s one, two would be projections that are thoughtful and believable.
0:21:30 Joe Jackman: It’s just avoid the hockey stick. We’re small. We’re going to grow it plus 50% year over year next year, and then we’re going to grow 300% the year following and crazy on into infinity. Beyond that, it just says pie in the sky. And it’s not like you want to under sell a forecast if and when you believe that it’s there to be had. And you can make a case for many, many reasons why, you know, a forecast is more than, you know, it’s plus 10 year over year.
0:22:09 Joe Jackman: But there needs to be a case underneath it. And it also, you know, I would always say, if you’re going to present scenarios in terms of growth forecasts, present first the conservative case. This is our base case. This is what we will build the business on. This is what we’ll make our investment decisions on, our capital needs. And there is a layer or two above that call it, you know, stretch goals.
0:22:41 Joe Jackman: We believe that it’s there. You know, you don’t have to say that it’s pie in the sky. You can say, here’s the reasons why that might actually be achievable.
0:22:48 Amanda Stassen: Right.
0:22:49 Joe Jackman: But the base case gives people comfort. It says we’re not getting ahead of ourselves. We know that there’s many, many unknowns in business and particularly early Stage and we’re going to be very pragmatic about how we go about this.
0:23:07 Amanda Stassen: Yeah, I, I love, I love how you call it base case as opposed to worst case. Language is so important in how we position pretty much everything. But I think especially as I’m, you know, reflecting on the entrepreneurs that I work with and, and the founders that I talk to, it’s like we want to believe our own hype because we have to hype ourselves up. This is tough slugging on the best of days. But at the same time, you know, we, we want to be, we want to continue to motivate and be realistic at the same time. So you’re right. It’s a very interesting balance.
0:23:45 Amanda Stassen: The, the playing field for entrepreneurship.
0:23:50 Joe Jackman: And the last piece I would, I would say is important in these early conversations. A founder or team, you know, presenting their business proposition, their investment thesis is. And this terminology might be, you know, unique to folks like me from the strategy world and less so in maybe the founder operating world, but a conversation about growth levers. And I think one thing that happens often is in the, in the zeal to present a picture of a business that has a lot of potential in front of is a series of ends.
0:24:40 Joe Jackman: And you have to be careful with all the ands. We have, you know, more doors that we can sell our product through. We have not only physical channel, we’ve got digital channels, we’ve got DTC, our own, you know, Ecom platform marketplaces, etc. Fantastic. So there’s a lot of channel growth, you know, levers. Well, then we’ve got, you know, product expansion, then we’ve got geographic expansion, then we’ve got an end and N and N and N. And we can see, you know, expanding our offering, etc.
0:25:16 Joe Jackman: All of those things are, can be very, very valid. But which ones are going to take you through the next stages of growth? As you know very well, strategy is choices.
0:25:28 Amanda Stassen: Yeah.
0:25:29 Joe Jackman: And I’m okay if founders say, look, there’s a number of ways that we can grow and intend to grow, and here they are. Good. I’d like to understand what they see as how, in terms of growth. But then here’s what we believe is the right focus now and the, the. Because the risk is too many geographies, too many channels, meaning too many relationships, meaning, you know, a lot of inventory expanding, expanding, expanding, expanding. How the heck are you going to fund that?
0:26:06 Joe Jackman: Yeah, how the heck are you going to execute against that? You know, better to be narrow and deep and then earn the way, you know, I Love this expression, prove and move.
0:26:17 Amanda Stassen: Yes.
0:26:17 Joe Jackman: You know, let’s prove and move our way beyond what we know and have mastered. And you can get ahead of it a little bit. Like, you don’t have to have everything, like completely perfect and buttoned down and then move to the next. It’s really, you just have to have your feet on the ground in, in the ways you chose in the early days to, to grow and put your investment in focus so that it enables you to get to the next one. To get to the next one. And that sequencing is really important.
0:26:46 Joe Jackman: Yeah, yeah.
0:26:48 Amanda Stassen: It’s, you know, perhaps in entrepreneurship, one of the things that I’ve come to learn because I’ve come from a similar world to you in the sense that, you know, strategy and advertising and branding, which is kind of this little bit of a ivory tower. A little bit. When you get down to the brass tacks of building something and launching it and doing it and you’re that operational part, it becomes. Because entrepreneurs are very much ideas per people.
0:27:21 Amanda Stassen: It’s like, I’ve got this and I’m doing this and I’m doing this and I’m doing. And there’s so much opportunity that you lose sight of the execution. And I think that that’s such a solid. That’s a, that’s a gold nugget right there. It’s like, maybe in this instance, skip the. And for now and focus on what is really driving the growth right now. You can always add, but you, you know, when you’re presenting yourself to a vc, prove it out first, make that a solid case and then move on, you know, so that, that operational side of it is so critical.
0:27:59 Joe Jackman: Oh, yeah. And, and, you know, early stage businesses is an illustration of scarcity in terms of resources and time, energy and, and dollars. And, you know, I’ve seen it many, many times where the, the enemy is not, you know, a competitor outdoing you. The enemy is shiny objects that float into your vision. And, you know, you’re so, yeah, it’s so you’re so geared to. I just need the way that’s going to give me the quarter.
0:28:35 Joe Jackman: It’s going to jump my sales curve by, you know, x. Oh, there’s something cool that could be, you know, a magical. There’s nothing. Look, there’s nothing magical. Yeah. In, in the world of building businesses and brands, it’s, it’s just being clear what are we focused on? How are we putting all of our energy behind that? And it’s sometimes not particularly sexy.
0:28:58 Amanda Stassen: No.
0:28:58 Joe Jackman: You know, there’s Lots of sexier possibilities, but every one of them in order to have happen requires the kind of work and effort you’re putting into what you’re doing, the choices you have made. So just grind those like just. And, and they will start to deliver and they will afford you then optionality and how to grow, you know, beyond that. Yes. Yeah.
0:29:22 Amanda Stassen: Ah, I love that. So good. I’m going to write the playbook for, for this with all of these nuggets. But, but I want to shift gears just a little bit. I want to talk about entrepreneurship in Canada. So according to bdc, there was a report, you know, that they found that in just over 20 years, Canadians interest in starting a new business has decreased by more than half. And you know, one of the reasons for sure is risk aversion, right. So compared to having a job going out on your own, it’s not for the faint of heart. It carries a lot of personal risk. But another reason is lack of Canadian VC funding.
0:30:00 Amanda Stassen: So they cite again that in 2023 the number of VC backed deals in Canada was down 13% year over year. The dollars invested was down maybe like beyond even 30%. And so a lot of the Canadian entrepreneurs that I know have experienced this and so they’ve gone south of the border and they’ve had success. I’d love to get your insight into. Well, why is that happening? First of all, have you experienced that? Have you? Or is that, is that a true statement? Is that something that resonates? And then why is that happening?
0:30:36 Joe Jackman: You know, as there’s a, maybe a, a deep insight which many would argue is unfair. But it’s a cultural point of conservatism as you know, as it’s, it’s very hard to generalize. Look, there’s lots of folks that you could point to. I mean, I love. One of my personal favorites would be like what the Spotify folks did, you know, fantastic. Like wow, you know, RIM before it exploded. There’s lots of great examples, but I think there tends to be a conservatism in our country that is more prevalent than in other places, particularly the United States, having worked a lifetime on both sides of the border.
0:31:29 Joe Jackman: And I would say it’s very, very true within the financial world and the investment world. I mean, look at the pillars of our economy. One of the truths is the banks are a very, very significant factor in our economy. Of course they are in most developed countries. But I would, I would argue that the, the, the bias towards safety and assurance is greater here than in other places. And then I think just the scale of the marketplace itself, there’s just is, you know, not as much capital, not as many, you know, entrepreneurial success stories, not as many VCs, you know, etc. Etc.
0:32:19 Joe Jackman: It’s a smaller place to hunt and fish.
0:32:22 Amanda Stassen: Right.
0:32:22 Joe Jackman: And you know, I, I actually, I would, I would argue the opposite in, in the execution side, I think, because Canada is a tougher market to build a scale business and brand. Some of the best business builders and marketers come from this country. Why? Because they, they exist and grow in conditions that are not easy. You know. Why do some of the best skiers in the world come from, you know, Collingwood, Ontario? Well, they ski on 800ft of vertical ice and that’s what they grew up with and learn. And when they get to, you know, the mountains in Switzerland, they’re like, this is awesome. I could ski this, no problem.
0:33:03 Joe Jackman: It’s similar, you know, you know, we, we learn to be tougher, I think. But I, I wish there were more, certainly. I wish there was more venture capital available, but I wish there were more. Let’s, let’s put some bets down thoughtfully, you know, with parameters and unfortunately, a lot of times people do end up in other countries finding that success.
0:33:32 Amanda Stassen: Yeah, yeah, that’s so good. I think that that’s such a great way to think about it that, yeah, the conditions may be hard, but if you can make it here, you can make it anywhere. What’s that said about New York? I think, but maybe we can say that about the Canadian entrepreneurial market too. So listen, I want to be sensitive to our time, but if you’re talking to students right now, you’re talking to people who want to kind of think about entrepreneurship and they’re asking you about areas of really high growth potential. If you were to launch a business today, what area or space would you lean into?
0:34:16 Amanda Stassen: That’s kind of your, a final thought here.
0:34:21 Joe Jackman: Services.
0:34:22 Amanda Stassen: Really?
0:34:23 Joe Jackman: I think the. Yeah, absolutely. Look, if, if you have a product idea, if you think there’s a breakthrough, you know, it’s very hard to find defendable, you know, truly innovative products that are, for example, science based.
0:34:41 Amanda Stassen: Right, right.
0:34:42 Joe Jackman: You know that, you know, there are people that can happen upon those. But, and there’s, there’s many, many ways to develop products that have true differentiation in a marketplace that doesn’t require necessarily patents and science and so on. But it’s a very crowded space. Products generally today there aren’t too many, there aren’t too many categories that are underdeveloped. In fact, there’s More entrants than we’ll ever have an economy for pretty much in everything.
0:35:15 Joe Jackman: But if you’ve got a truly unique proposition that you can hone and defend over time, then you know, I, I, look, I’ve been, I’m investing in some of those right now, so. But services are underdeveloped I, I believe. And if you look across like for example, I’m close to retail as an industry, a lot of my career spent there and what makes money these days in retail is services and, and there is nothing but up in creating, you know, new propositions, new platforms might be, you know, the technology platforms that enable services all the way through to. What are they?
0:36:00 Joe Jackman: What am I offering to do? It’s an exploding, you know, it depends on which category you’re actually talking about, but broadly it’s an exploding dimension. It’s certainly more important on our economy than ever has been and that’s true in the western world. So yeah, that’s why. And then you know, just look at potential for AI to play a role, etc. And it’s pretty exciting. So yeah, that’s what, that’s what I would say and as a message to your listeners, some of whom are entrepreneurs or considering I don’t think there’s a better path in the sense of what you can get from it. And I don’t only mean creating financial reward, I mean the learning.
0:36:49 Joe Jackman: I came, I came from a meeting earlier with a CEO. He had been a CEO a couple of times, larger scale businesses. And then he did a crazy thing. He went and built a startup with some people and that was about three years, massive fail. And you know, I can hear him in turn saying, you know, that was a bit of a, you know, a mulligan and you know, back to, you know, leading another big corporation. But, but when you get past that part, what he learned in that three years was like massively important and it’s actually made him a much better leader and a much more insightful leader. So, so I think if, if you only measured on financial, I mean if you have the wherewithal, failure is not a bad thing.
0:37:36 Amanda Stassen: Yeah.
0:37:36 Joe Jackman: You know, and, and a lot of times if you’ve got the appetite and the wherewithal to fail, you probably have at least one of the keys to succeeding. And you know, so I, I listen, I’ve been an entrepreneur a few times, I’m still, still doing it today. I mean sometimes I’ll say like what, what the heck, right, do I have in being a so called venture capitalist? Well, you know, I, I’ve got my own version of it.
0:37:59 Amanda Stassen: Yes.
0:37:59 Joe Jackman: It’s working so far and I’m learning a ton. I can’t say everything’s successful, you know, Have I made some good choices? Yes. Have I made some less than good choices? Yeah, a few of those too. But it’s awesome. So, yeah, I would just send out courage and yes, I love that courage, encouragement and positive vibes to those who think about this path.
0:38:19 Amanda Stassen: Yes. And, and, and I mean, part of my own personal mission is to see the rise of entrepreneurship come back to Canada and to be that encouragement, inspiration and whether it’s entrepreneurship outside of a corporation or whether it’s intrapreneurship. Right. Because it can happen in both dimensions where you have those legacy organ creating smaller entities that they then give birth to when they release into the wild, if you will. But to start something new, there is magic and power in that. So I’m with you. I’m with you.
0:38:54 Amanda Stassen: Before we wrap up, what two practical tips would you share that would help founders and entrepreneurs purposefully accelerate their business and brand growth today?
0:39:09 Joe Jackman: Yeah, that is such a tough question. Two things, because the reason I say it’s tough is because it’s so often situational.
0:39:17 Amanda Stassen: Yeah.
0:39:18 Joe Jackman: But if I were, if I were to say the following. There has never been a time in all of business history for people to build brand, build brand engagement awareness efficiently and scrappily than right now. Like the tools, the, you know, the, the pipes, everything is in place. And really it would have taken, you know, years and years, if not decades and millions and millions, if not multiples of that to build a brand today. It can be done in, you know, seriously 6 months, 12 months.
0:40:04 Joe Jackman: Because we live in a world of social media. We, we live in a world where people share, you know, there’s, there’s buzz that can be generated, influencers, you know, viral communications, etc. Etc. Etc. Earned media. Like there’s never been more media players and therefore there’s never been greater competition for new content. They are just dying for people to tell them stuff that they can print. I’m talking about traditional news media as well as specialized in trade.
0:40:34 Joe Jackman: So I say all that is that building a proposition and a business, getting it up and running and executing, delivering on your promises and that is just bedrock to creating a successful outcome. But creating top spin so that people are aware of you, so that they can engage with you. Learn that stuff, you know, find people that know it, borrow, you know, your cousin is a whiz at, you know, customer acquisition, online, etcetera like just figure out how to use those tools because it’s, they’re just godsends in early stage.
0:41:16 Joe Jackman: So that’s one. Number two is it’s sort of like the two sided coin and in fact it is about currency. It’s. Don’t underestimate how much money it will take to do what you need to do. In fact, I would argue you overestimate one of the things I’ll often tell people when they come in with pitches. You’re not asking for enough money because you know, if you are successful, when you are successful in getting people to support your vision, you don’t want to come back too soon.
0:41:50 Joe Jackman: You want to have enough to do what you need to do. So make sure you’re, you know, you’ve got the wherewithal to give it a run to the next stage. But the other side of the coin is like, spend it so wisely. It’s so easy to spray money in the early stages and, and you just have to be. So it’s not like don’t be cheap or you know, hold back, particularly on the things that are going to give you growth and ultimately profit, but be so choiceful.
0:42:26 Joe Jackman: You know, I find that if you go back two or three years, four years, the world was awash in, you know, private equity and VC money. You just had to go to. Like I remember walking the Expo west natural food show out in California a few years back and besides being, you know, excited by all the various new propositions, all I could see was VC money, you know, papered on booths and, and I thought, wow, like there’s a lot of investment behind all these players.
0:42:58 Joe Jackman: But it was so easy to spend because it was so plentiful. Well, now we don’t live in that environment. People are looking for return, not just growth. And, and so be careful with your money.
0:43:10 Amanda Stassen: Yeah, yeah.
0:43:11 Joe Jackman: Particularly when it becomes someone else’s money.
0:43:13 Amanda Stassen: Well, this is just it. You’re. It behooves you as a founder and an entrepreneur to consider that, you know, that when you’re taking in the money, how are you going to spend it and how are you going to be kind of a good steward of it, both of the brand and building that vision and building that story and getting it out there, but also of the resources that you get. So those are awesome, awesome tips.
0:43:37 Amanda Stassen: So Joe, where can people learn more about Catapult Capital and maybe even connect with you?
0:43:44 Joe Jackman: Yeah, if you were to go to Catapult Partners vc, you’d find our website recently updated and, and there’s a Contact Us section in there and and then but a very outdated if a little bit about me would be joejackman.com and that was a book there and such. And then my business I’m chairman of now, not CEO. Brian Ross is the chairman of or the CEO of Jackman. And that’s jackman reinvents.com.
0:44:18 Amanda Stassen: Awesome. Thank you for yeah, absolutely. Joe, listen, thank you so much for sharing your experience and your insights. And just in case you haven’t heard this today, thank you for living and sharing your purpose. The world is made better because of it. Thank you.
0:44:33 Joe Jackman: That’s very, very, very kind of you. Amanda. Great to reconnect with you and thanks for this opportunity.
0:44:38 Amanda Stassen: Awesome. Thanks so much. Hey, thanks for listening to this episode of the Purpose Power Brand show. I hope you got a lot out of this masterclass. I know I did. I really appreciate Joe’s perspective on the world of VCs and private equity. Not only is he an entrepreneur himself, having founded and built Jackman, so he’s done the heavy lifting of starting something from scratch. He’s now bringing that strategic and operational savvy plus the bench strength of Jackman into Catapult Partners.
0:45:06 Amanda Stassen: So he’s not just talking about investing from a numbers and a financial what the financials say perspective. He’s talking about it from the doing side as well. Also loved what Joe said about the tyranny of and now in the innovation world. Yes. And is one of the best ways to build ideas. But when you’re an entrepreneur and can be a distraction and can actually dilute your core proposition focus especially when you’re pitching, you don’t want to pull in all the different ways and channels you’re going to be making money. You want to focus on the core way and as Joe Joe said, proven move from there.
0:45:43 Amanda Stassen: Prove that you can make the sales in one channel and within one geographic area and then once you’ve mastered that, expand. So good. Such a good piece of advice for entrepreneurs. For me, I suffer definitely from shiny object syndrome and it’s something that I definitely need to keep in front and focus for myself. So such a good piece of advice now also, if if you haven’t figured it out, Joe and I worked together for over eight years at Jackman. He’s awesome. I love his perspective, I love his energy and he’s also the author of the Reinventionist Mindset Learning how to Love Change and the Human how of Doing It Brilliantly, which is a must read for anyone who’s in the field of reinvention or who wants to reinvent and is navigating change Again.
0:46:30 Amanda Stassen: Thank you for being here with me. Until next time. Keep moving forward. Keep building, keep growing. Keep sharing your vision. The world needs courageous entrepreneurs and leaders just like you, now more than ever. Bye for now.
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