0:00:03 Amanda Stassen: Welcome to Purpose Power Brand, a podcast for leaders and brands transforming business into a force for good. I’m Amanda Stassen, business and brand strategist, entrepreneur, and founder of BIZU Innovation Group. I’m speaking with leaders who are proving that not only does purpose drive profit, but the future of our world depends on it. If you want to outperform your market, grow your customers, build your employee culture, or attract investors, you’re going to want to lean in.

0:00:28 Amanda Stassen: Today we’re talking healthcare, entrepreneurship and innovation. And I’m super excited to have Jana Rieger, CEO and co founder of True Angle, a health tech company, on a mission to improve people’s lives through technology. Welcome, Jana, to the Purpose Power Brand podcast. Thanks for joining.

0:00:46 Jana Rieger: Thank you very much, Amanda. I’m happy to be here today.

0:00:49 Amanda Stassen: Awesome. So, before we dive into the business of health tech, I want to talk a little bit about you. You’re a professor, a clinician, a researcher, and now an entrepreneur. I’d love for you to share a bit about your journey from clinical researcher to entrepreneur. And maybe as you do that, give us one word that best describes the purpose that powered your journey through this and the work you’re doing today.

0:01:20 Jana Rieger: Oh, just one word. I can think of a few. But, you know, really what it comes down to is creating a true difference for people and making a change in their lives. Now, when I was thinking as you were asking that question, I’m joking about only one word, because there are many. You know, when I think about the journey from through all those different parts of my life, I’d say, though, there is one word that unifies it all, and that is creativity and creation.

0:01:56 Jana Rieger: You know, what I learned about myself is that if I’m not creating something, I’m not happy. And so as I’ve gone through my career, I started off as a clinician. I then became a clinician researcher. And through that process, that’s when I really identified that there was a particular group of patients that I was working with. They were unfortunately diagnosed with head and neck cancer. They had this terrible condition that they had to deal with after all their treatments for cancer, and we didn’t have great treatments for it. And I knew that what this condition was was basically they couldn’t swallow food properly, and I mean, so severe that they wouldn’t be able to eat by mouth.

0:02:48 Jana Rieger: Now, it might sound like this is just a nutritional thing, but what it came down to was what I heard more from patients was about how it blew apart their lives in terms of quality of life. And if you think about eating, it’s just in the fabric of our beings and who we are as people. And so what I heard from them was that this part of their life was destroyed. And so we really got on a mission to help with that and to, you know, create a difference in their lives so that they could get back to enjoying the life that they’re living. And that became our slogan for our company, our tagline.

0:03:29 Jana Rieger: Because to us, we are much more than just a medical device company or a health tech company. It’s really about making a difference in people’s lives.

0:03:38 Amanda Stassen: Yeah, yeah. In a very, very tangible way. When you think about food, I mean, just being able to eat and enjoy food, not just for the nutrition sake of it, but just the enjoyment of being around people, having family, going out, whatever the situation is. How much of that would be lost if you had a situation where you couldn’t swallow, you know, post surgery or post any of the things that you’re describing.

0:04:10 Amanda Stassen: I’d love to just build on that entrepreneurship, creativity for a second. Because being a entrepreneur is definitely not for the faint of heart, let alone in the health tech space. I mean, I can only imagine that it was a big shift going from being a professor and a clinician to then starting a business. I mean, it takes some reinvention. Take us back to those early days. I want to just hover in the space of, you know, this entrepreneurship idea and creativity.

0:04:44 Amanda Stassen: Maybe share some of the things that you had to hurdle through yourself to take, to even take that leap into starting a business.

0:04:52 Jana Rieger: Yeah, for sure. I mean, I’d love to talk about that. And it reminds me of a comment that I heard from a colleague once about myself. They said, what is she doing now? You know, And I think what they meant by that was, you know, I just. When things get too much the same and it feels like you’re a bit on a wheel, that’s when things. For me, that’s when I have to take action in my own life. So if we go back to the early days of my career as a clinician scientist, I mean, what was exciting about it was I was creating a program, I was creating a lab, I was finding things out about the treatments we were doing that were working and weren’t working, you know, and I was building myself in that respect, in that academic respect.

0:05:51 Jana Rieger: And there came a point where, I mean, you never ever, I guess, do it all. But I felt like I had achieved certain things and kind of there was a bit of Groundhog Day going on where, you know, you wake up and you feel like you’re doing kind of the same thing. When this opportunity for doing something different came up, which was to become an entrepreneur, to create something different, it was. It was something that intrigued me. And I guess maybe if I go back a little bit into my history, my father was an entrepreneur.

0:06:34 Jana Rieger: He worked in the hospitality industry, actually. And so one of the things that I saw growing up, and it was restaurant business, was people around food, people loving food. Yeah. And, you know, I always had that in my blood between food and between business. And so for me, stepping into business was not completely foreign. I had seen that in my life. But when you’re actually the one who’s going to do it, yeah, it’s a bit of a different story. And so.

0:07:10 Jana Rieger: But I was really yearning for, again, a change, a challenge, and something a little different. And so life just had a way of lining up timing for me where it came at the right time. And I think what was really important in making that jump from being an academic, a clinician, into an entrepreneurial role was to have the right people around me. And by that I mean mentors and network. And, you know, I think learning how to network is a bit of a skill.

0:07:50 Jana Rieger: Yeah, it was a skill that I actually learned in between, like, before starting True Angle, I had, I dipped my toe into the water of another entrepreneurial journey, but much more on the creative side. So I wrote a novel.

0:08:06 Amanda Stassen: Oh, wow.

0:08:08 Jana Rieger: Yeah. I published the novel and I had to learn about in that creative writing aspect. It wasn’t something that I had been taught. So I had to figure out, how do I foster this for myself? How do I create networks, how do I get involved? So that was almost like a little precursor. And I really learned through that experience, which was a 10 year journey, how to do that. So when it came to starting True Angle, I understood that I really needed that network and I had to do that. And so what I did was I accessed the community, I found out what was out there, and I was fortunate enough to find the Creative Destruction Lab, which was an accelerator, still is an accelerator, one of the premier accelerators for tech companies.

0:08:59 Jana Rieger: And that really changed the game because I got to meet people and go through mentorship. That really set us on our business foot. So we knew the tech, we knew the patience, but the business side of things is completely different.

0:09:15 Amanda Stassen: Absolutely. And it doesn’t matter what field. You could be in business your entire life and work for someone else. You could work for a corporation or another business, but as soon as you move into the realm of entrepreneurship. It’s like you need to develop a whole other level of skill set because no matter what your specialty was, whether it was in the academic area, education, or whether it was in fitness or, it doesn’t matter what it is, doing the entrepreneurship, moving into entrepreneurship requires, it pulls on so many different aspects of you as an individual.

0:09:53 Amanda Stassen: You need to, you must, you absolutely must have a learner’s mindset like you, and then you have to you, as you’re saying, you have to surround yourself with people, like minded people who can sow into your life, both from a specific mentorship perspective, but also just to help you keep going when you feel like you just can’t do another day. Because it’s hard. It’s hard work to build something from nothing.

0:10:20 Amanda Stassen: Right. So I really appreciate you calling that out, that you did surround yourself with so many people to make that leap.

0:10:28 Jana Rieger: Yeah, for sure. And, you know, you touched on the hard work part. I think that my other experiences in academia and with creative writing really set me up for a few things. So first of all, set me up for rejection.

0:10:44 Amanda Stassen: Right.

0:10:45 Jana Rieger: And I say that in the best of ways. But, you know, in academia, there’s lots of different ways you put forward these ideas, say for research or something that you love. You put those ideas forward and 10 to 1, you’ll get, your grant will get rejected, your paper will get rejected. And at first, when that’s first coming your way, it hurts. But then after that, you learn how to deal with it and you learn how to take it and learn from it. And the same thing with creative writing.

0:11:14 Jana Rieger: Of course, everybody knows there’s lots of rejections there. So that set me up very much for understanding that when I step into this entrepreneurial world, it’s not going to be all posies and rainbows. There will be moments where people aren’t going to agree with what you’re doing or you’re out there fundraising. And it’s, it’s not going to be a yes all the time. In fact, no, it’s , it’s the opposite in many cases. So I think those things prepared me for that as well as the long haul. Like you had mentioned that as well.

0:11:51 Jana Rieger: It’s not a short journey. You have to be ready to, you know, it’s like what I say to students who have been PhD students of mine, this is a long journey. Like, you better really love what you’re doing because there will be moments where you wonder, why did I ever do this?

0:12:08 Amanda Stassen: Yes.

0:12:09 Jana Rieger: But if that base love and desire to do it is there, it pulls you through those valleys that you might be going through.

0:12:19 Amanda Stassen: Absolutely, absolutely. So let’s get into the business. Let’s get into the business side of True Angle. I want to set some definitions. I want to set some context for the problem that you’re looking to solve. So simply, dysphagia is a swallowing disorder. And tell me if this is accurate. But I’ve seen some stats that say something like dysphagia affects nearly three million Canadians with one in 17 people developing dysphagia in their lifetime and, you know, affecting 35% of seniors.

0:12:54 Amanda Stassen: How does that, does that line up with your experience?

0:12:56 Jana Rieger: Yeah, it certainly does. And some of, even now the newer stats coming out are one in six.

0:13:03 Amanda Stassen: Wow.

0:13:04 Jana Rieger: It just depends how it’s being measured. But some of the newer stuff suggests that it’s higher and not surprisingly so. What’s interesting is that a lot of people, when they hear that today on your podcast, they will say, how can it be? I’ve never heard of it.

0:13:24 Amanda Stassen: Right, right.

0:13:26 Jana Rieger: Part of it is there’s a few reasons for that. Number one, people, usually dysphagia comes along with something else. So either you’ve had a stroke or you have Parkinson’s disease or MS, or cancer, and along with that, you develop dysphagia. And so, you know, your friends might hear, oh, yeah, that person had a stroke, but they may never hear all the other stuff that goes along with it. The second thing is that very often people don’t want to,

0:14:02 Jana Rieger: It’s not a condition that people who have it even feel comfortable talking about a lot of the time. That’s. That’s something that I’m not saying from my own experience. I’m saying from what I’ve heard from patients who have it or people who have it, they don’t feel comfortable about talking about it. And if you think about it, you know, if you’ve ever been at a dinner and you’ve accidentally choked on food.

0:14:29 Amanda Stassen: Yeah.

0:14:29 Jana Rieger: It’s incredibly embarrassing. And the first, you just want to, like, get away from.

0:14:34 Amanda Stassen: You want to leave, yeah.

0:14:35 Jana Rieger: And so. So there tends to be a bit of stigma there, too. So I think that for those reasons, there’s not a lot of awareness of just how severe a disorder this is. I mean, it doesn’t mean that there’s just, you know, a few foods you can’t eat. It means that for some people, their life is at risk with every swallow they take every day. Because of their airway. Because food and liquid can get into their airway. It can cause aspiration pneumonias, or, I mean, they can choke.

0:15:09 Jana Rieger: And so it’s, it becomes a very, very terrifying condition for many people to live with.

0:15:15 Amanda Stassen: Mm. Mm. And from what I understand, the way that the Mobili-T product works is, you know, it’s a biofeedback sensing technology. And so when people go through this and they need the support, they would go and get some therapy help. And so when I brought in the view of what this product, what the, what True Angle’s product does, I want to. I feel like there’s a huge impact on our healthcare system. I would imagine that the complications that are due to dysphagia, like, especially with seniors, they increase their strain on healthcare costs. Right? So everything from being readmitted to a hospital, emergency room visits, probably hospital stays, feeding tube stuff, I would think from all of the benefits that this kind of health tech has for what could, what is really a preventable condition that, like, hospitals everywhere would be clamoring to scoop this up.

0:16:20 Amanda Stassen: What are the barriers in the adoption of, like, health tech, like, True Angle? Like, are there challenges in getting this type of innovation out there in the world today?

0:16:30 Jana Rieger: Certainly, I think with any health tech innovation, there are challenges. You know, to your point about costs, what we know is that again, this is from the literature that the costs around this are astronomical, from side effects like aspiration pneumonia. So $20 billion a year are spent on managing that. People who have this will stay in the hospital twice as long. So the cost of care for hospital stays is much more.

0:17:02 Jana Rieger: So we know that there are benefits that can be had, financial benefits that can be had by getting patients on an intensive exercise program. This is just like intensive physiotherapy for your swallow. And yet, yes, there are, there are blocks. You know, I mentioned before that not many people are aware how prevalent this is. Unless you are involved in somehow, you’ve seen it as a healthcare professional or, you know, someone who’s had it.

0:17:38 Jana Rieger: And so a lot of times when we’re talking to big health systems, what’s on their radar screen are things like heart disease, cancer, but you know, the primary cancer, lung disease. So those things that are just much more visible in everyday life are higher on their list of things that, that they’re looking for solutions for. And yet we know that as many people, it’s the rate of dysphagia is as high, almost as high as the rate for diabetes.

0:18:17 Jana Rieger: So, you know, it’s one of these things about education. Secondly, it’s the technology that we have is the first of its kind. So it’s, it’s a technology that we know if people stick to it, for many of them, they can make changes that will prevent these things. Now, not all, but many, many of them can make these changes. And so it’s the first time that we’ve had a technology that is remote, wearable, that patients can have at home.

0:18:53 Jana Rieger: So part of this is about early adoption of technologies. Who’s going to be the first one to step out and take the risk with it, even though it’s pretty risk free, except for, of course, what it costs to implement the system and then just changing workflows within healthcare systems. I mean, there’s a whole bunch of change management. And I think with any innovator who has a health technology, if you think that you can just sell a piece of hardware or whatever it is and that you don’t put effort into change management, you will fail miserably.

0:19:33 Jana Rieger: One of the things we’ve heard from administrators who we’re talking to and working with is that they buy technology for their clinicians and then it sits on the shelf. And it’s because we really do have to pay attention to how this fits into their workflow. Showing them how it can help their workflow, understanding their pressures, and again, working through that whole change management process with them.

0:20:01 Jana Rieger: Otherwise we’ll become another technology that just sits on a shelf too.

0:20:07 Amanda Stassen: It’s so interesting. I think that is just so wise. I was going to ask you about, you know, what advice you would give to entrepreneurs in the health tech space, but I think this is one I just want to hover on. So because it applies to anyone with any product to, to take a product and embed it into somebody’s life, even, it could be the greatest idea. It could do so many different things. But if you don’t have the empathy to understand how is what you’re presenting, how does it actually fit in that person’s life or their workflow to make it easier, to make it better, to make it more cost effective, whatever it is, to actually work through that sort of user journey, if you will, to understand the highs and lows and where your product fits in and how you can help them to see how by using it, it’s actually going to free up time, make their lives better, have greater outcomes in terms of health tech, the product itself will be set up for failure.

0:21:08 Amanda Stassen: And how many, how often you just make the assumption, entrepreneurs make the assumption that this is such a great product, why wouldn’t everybody just jump on the bandwagon? You’re almost trying to defy human nature in that space, right?

0:21:24 Jana Rieger: Yep, yep, for sure. And so what we’ve done as a company is we’ve really put effort into the whole onboarding and implementation process with our customers and we’re able to set goals with them when we start working with them and monitor those goals. And we’re able to watch how much the clinicians are interacting with the system. And if we see that their interaction, something’s happening with that, it’s.

0:21:59 Jana Rieger: We hop on a call with them, we talk about, hey, what’s going on here? Usually whatever we hear, we’re like, okay, you know what we’ve heard this here’s a potential solution that we’ve heard from others. And it’s interesting to watch how things change. But definitely you have to get in there. And the other thing is no one health system is like another health system, right? So just because something works for one group doesn’t mean it’s going to work for the other group.

0:22:29 Jana Rieger: Now there’s a cost to this for business because it means hands on, it means getting in there. But if you consider that to be part of your product, that your customer success experience is just a part of your product, then it’s an investment that you make in your product creation.

0:22:50 Amanda Stassen: Yeah, that’s so true. That’s so true. I think again, it’s not enough to just create a great product that solves a problem, you have to think holistically about how it fits into the ecosystem and into the user, into the customer’s journey, into the customer’s life. So absolutely great, great advice. I want to, I want to talk quickly about data biofeedback and AI and I just love how True Angles Mobili-T, which I just, I love the name it makes. It’s just so, it makes so much sense to me. I just love it.

0:23:25 Amanda Stassen: The product is a, is a biofeedback sensing technology. So it provides patients with real time data on their progress and then also provides that information to their clinicians. That’s huge power in that, like, not to mention applications. So basically in my mind, anything that requires physiotherapy, and there’s probably even more applications because wearable tech has been around for quite some time. You know, tracking sleep, heart rate.

0:23:54 Amanda Stassen: You know, I think of Apple Watch as a simple example. Monitoring your heart rate and then it tells you to breathe when you sense stress. I would love to hear your perspective about AI powered biofeedback. There’s a lot of talk about that being the future, the Next evolution of therapy. What’s your take on that? And is that something that you’re looking at for True Angle?

0:24:20 Jana Rieger: Definitely. I think that it is going to be the wave of the future. When I think about our product, the beauty of biofeedback, whether it’s for swallowing, exercise, or any other kind of exercise in your body, is that as human beings, we’re not always that aware of our own bodies. And especially for something like swallowing, you know, we never think about it. It just happens until it doesn’t. So, you know, at a very basic level, the way the biofeedback is transmitted and the patient can see their swallow, that’s pretty basic. The devices is there, those things are set where I think the changes and the advancement of this technology will continue to grow, not just for mobility, but for sensing devices, is in the software side of things. So in the evolution of the software and what’s running in the background.

0:25:20 Jana Rieger: And machine learning is going to be a big part of that. So for us, for example, we have algorithms that are working that are saying, was that a swallow? Wasn’t that a swallow? Because what we understood early on is that when the patient is using this independently, they’re not going to have a clinician beside them. So we have to build that in. And to be able to take advantage of computing power to do that is amazing and wonderful. And so,

0:25:48 Jana Rieger: But I think it goes even further than that. I think when we are able to, and there’ll be many things to overcome here, but as, as a society, when we’re able integrate so many forms of data, from what a person is doing at home to what other physiological measures we have for them and put those together, the pattern recognition that can happen with machine learning, as human beings, we would never be able to figure that out. And I think what it does for us as clinicians, as humans, is that I know people are really worried about, you know, AI is going to have the final word and making all these decisions. It’s.

0:26:35 Jana Rieger: To me, it’s really about being an assistant to the human being because there’s what, you know, there’s empathetic care that still has to happen. And so for us, what having this software and the machine learning in it does for our clinicians is it frees up their time from just doing that rote, I’m sitting beside you, I’m telling you, that was good. Good swallow, good swallow, right? And it frees up their time for much more empathetic care. So I’d heard another podcast where a woman was being interviewed who had dysphagia.

0:27:11 Amanda Stassen: Okay.

0:27:12 Jana Rieger: And she said in her journey, she had just wished that somebody would ask her, what was your biggest challenge this week with having a swallowing problem? And, you know, what she was getting at was that the care she was receiving was good, but it was so technical and she needed someone to listen to her. And again, it comes back down to that, you know, the enjoyment of life. And she needed someone to help her solve some of those problems.

0:27:44 Amanda Stassen: Right.

0:27:45 Jana Rieger: Maybe modifications that could be made or whatever, but it never. The conversations didn’t go to that empathetic level. I think that when technology can help us by taking over some of that techie stuff, it allows clinicians to really be more empathetic and take more time for those kind of conversations.

0:28:09 Amanda Stassen: Oh, my gosh. I just, I love this. I love what you’re saying. I love that the, you know, in the healthcare space, that machine learning and AI could be such a great assistant in the diagnostic and then free up the time for the clinician, the doctor, whoever, to actually spend more of their time, more of their energy, actually, on the empathy side, on the future state side, on all of those other things that so many of us feel is lacking in that space. So it’s so fascinating. This whole space is so exciting. My mind is just, like, racing with ideas. There’s so much application here, and I’m so excited for you guys in this space.

0:28:53 Amanda Stassen: Jana, I’ve learned so much. This has been such an interesting conversation, and I know that I could keep asking questions, but before we close, I’d love for you to share, you know, maybe two practical purposes, power tips, I.e. entrepreneurs and business leaders we can apply today to grow or even just to start our business or brand.

0:29:16 Amanda Stassen: What thoughts would you have on that?

0:29:18 Jana Rieger: Yeah, you know, I think I would say that it’s. To me, it’s really important to differentiate between our goals as a company and our purpose. So, and it really comes down to, your goals are the what, and your purpose is the why. And, you know, I think that as entrepreneurs, there’s going to be certain goals that you might not achieve. You might have to shift your milestones, whatever it might be, but that doesn’t mean that your purpose is off.

0:29:48 Jana Rieger: Purpose is more steady. And so. But I think sometimes those things get confused and people get really discouraged and, you know, feel like I should just give up. But it’s. It’s not. It’s like, okay, this is just something that we have to shift. But our purpose is still this underlying foundation that is there. So I think that would be number one. And then I think number two, just on a more personal level for entrepreneurs, is that, you know, I like to bring purpose down to a really personal level and bite sized chunks, you know, And I think that for me, I used to think about purpose as some grand achievement that you had to make in your life.

0:30:37 Jana Rieger: And I now look at it very differently. I look at it as just to always do my best. And a lot of this thinking comes from this great little book called the Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz where he talks about four things in life that are really important for happiness. And one is being impeccable with your words. Two is, you know, don’t take things personally. Three, don’t make assumptions. And four, always do your best. And when I think about being an entrepreneur, those things all fit. But the one for me that is most important is every day, have I done my best? Am I doing my best?

0:31:19 Amanda Stassen: Yeah, I love that. I think that’s so good. I love how you encapsulated that, there’s such a, there is a difference between goals and purpose. And that purpose is that North Star, if you will, that, that is kind of always going to keep you on your course. And then not to make, not necessarily to make purpose a grand, grandiose thing, but to make it something that you can just keep looking, keep your eye on,

0:31:49 Amanda Stassen: So that you can ask yourself that question, did I in this day do my best in everything that I could possibly do my best in? And I think that’s, that’s really wise. It’s really good. That’s awesome. That’s awesome. Thank you so much. It’s been so good chatting with you. Thank you for sharing your story. Thank you for living your purpose. And I just have to say, just in case you haven’t heard it today, I want to tell you that the world is made better because of you and the work you’re doing.

0:32:16 Amanda Stassen: Thank you so much.

0:32:18 Jana Rieger: Thank you, Amanda. I appreciate it.

0:32:23 Amanda Stassen: Hey, thanks for listening to the Purpose Power Brand podcast. I’m Amanda Stassen. If you liked what you heard, be sure to share and subscribe on your favorite podcast player. We’d also love to hear what resonated with you. Or if you have a guest suggestion, drop us a line at info@bizu.co. Special thanks to Marc Salam for original music and lead podcasting for production. Lastly, if you’re ready to purpose power your brand to grow, win and impact at scale, let’s talk.

0:32:48 Amanda Stassen: Visit www.bizu.co. That’s www.bizu.co. Bye for now.