0:00:03 Amanda Stassen: Welcome to Purpose Power Brand, a podcast for leaders and brands transforming business into a force for good. I’m Amanda Stassen, business and brand strategist, entrepreneur and founder of BIZU Innovation Group. I’m speaking with leaders who are proving that not only does purpose drive profit, but the future of our world depends on it. If you’re looking to outperform your market, grow your customers, build your employee culture, or attract investors, you’re in the right place.

0:00:28 Amanda Stassen: Hey, everyone. Today I have the pleasure of speaking with Emily O’Brien, founder and CEO of Comeback Snacks, a social enterprise that makes popcorn so good it’s criminal. They’re on a mission to raise awareness for giving formerly incarcerated people second chances and to support their reintegration programs. Welcome, Emily, to the Purpose power brand podcast. Thanks for joining me today.

0:00:51 Emily O’Brien: Thank you for having me.

0:00:53 Amanda Stassen: I’m so excited. You know, with most guests, I actually start by asking them what one word describes the purpose that powers the work that they’re doing. But I feel that in order to really do this question justice with you, we need to get some context for your story. So, let’s go backwards to go forwards. Let’s, take me back ten years or so ago. You’re running a social media company. You’re successful, you’re living the high life, so to speak.

0:01:23 Amanda Stassen: What’s happening in your life? Build the timeline for us to bring us to today.

0:01:29 Emily O’Brien: Yeah, sure. So 2013, 2014, I was living in Toronto. I had started a social media company. By no means were we a multi million-dollar company. I wasn’t living the highlife, but I was doing well, and I was able to pay my rent and save money, and I was really happy with the work that I was doing.

0:01:47 Amanda Stassen: Nice. Okay.

0:01:48 Emily O’Brien: So while I was doing all this, I found out that my parents were going to be separated. And this was really tough for me. And I know this is nothing unusual, but after, you know, 30 years of marriage, it’s hard because when you see people that you love in pain and, you know, they just want to make it work and it can’t, it’s hard. And I, like, I always kind of, like, drank and whatever, like, celebrated with, like, drinking and stuff. And so, like, I thought that I was fine, but when I, when I found out this news, my substance use turned to medication instead of celebration.

0:02:23 Emily O’Brien: And then there’s also cocaine use that became involved. And just to kind of mask this feeling, like cocaine was like botox for the soul, I was like, okay, like, you know, I’m just gonna power through this because there’s also people that were like, oh, you know, you’re old enough now. Just kind of, like, making me feel bad for being sad. And so that really pissed me off. And so I was like, right, okay, well, I’m just not even gonna say anything anymore, and I’m just gonna try to pass this time.

0:02:48 Emily O’Brien: And, you know, I was literally high functioning. You know, it’s not like I was locking myself in my room or anything. Like, so for the first, like, six months of this, I was still building this business. But I knew that I didn’t want to keep doing the drinking, the alcohol, and then doing the drugs as I was. Like, I wanted to, I want to stop. It wasn’t getting me anywhere. It was just like, like I said, botox for the soul.

0:03:11 Amanda Stassen: Wow. Yeah.

0:03:13 Emily O’Brien: And I actually met someone through my work who coincidentally and allegedly was sober and, you know, wanted to help me get back, back on my path. I don’t want to say, like, go down a better path, because it was - my path was good, it was just. I was stumbling on this path that I was on. And we became pretty close within our business relationship, and we became pretty good friends. He was kind of, he would help me with, like, little simple things, like walking my dog and, you know, helping me with my car and stuff. And then I started to notice some, like, red flags, and,

0:03:46 Emily O’Brien: But I ignored them because I saw him as this, you know, sober person that I could hang out with and trust. And then eventually, like, after about eight months of, like, this friendship, I would say. Some people, you’ll read some people say, this is my boyfriend. This is not, like, a physical relationship at all. It was like, just like, we had, like, a love for each other or my thought, like, not, like. How do I describe it?

0:04:07 Emily O’Brien: Like, I don’t say it was love because I wasn’t, like, in love with him, but as I felt close to him.

0:04:13 Amanda Stassen: You trusted him.

0:04:14 Emily O’Brien: Yeah. Yeah. And so he invited me on this trip to what he told me was Puerto Rico. And it was going to be, like, a sober trip, you know? And he invites me on this trip, and lo and behold, like, three days in, he’s. He’s A drinking, because apparently now he drinks on vacation. B - we didn’t go to Puerto Rico, we went to St. Lucia. And, okay, so he told me to, he told me in the beginning where we were going somewhere different so that I would tell people I was going somewhere else.

0:04:44 Emily O’Brien: And so three days in, he completely changes, and I’m about to go down to the pool one day, and it’s the Wednesday. We got there on Friday, and this is the Wednesday. He’s like, you’re not going down to the pool today. Did you really think this is all just fun and games?

0:05:00 Amanda Stassen: Oh, wow.

0:05:01 Emily O’Brien: And looks at me with this look that I’m never gonna forget. It was like this, it was like a different person.

0:05:06 Amanda Stassen: Wow.

0:05:07 Emily O’Brien: And then he said, we’re here to work. And by the end of that week, I had 2 kilograms cocaine strapped to my body, was put on an airplane, landed at Pearson. Didn’t want to do it. I was really horrible at it. I wanted to go home. He had, he said they had all my information because he booked the tickets. He was in debt, and I just wanted to go home. So I don’t know what else to do. And I was like, listen, I’m going to be really bad at this. I’ve never done this before.

0:05:32 Emily O’Brien: And he wasn’t even listening. He wouldn’t even listen. And so, yeah, I got arrested at Pearson. And with, you know, after being asked a series of questions by the secondary screening officers. I answered the question. Miss O’Brien, like, are you carrying anything right now with you? And I said, yes. And then I was arrested. And that would eventually lead me to a four-year prison term.

0:05:57 Amanda Stassen: Wow. Oh, my gosh.

0:05:59 Emily O’Brien: In a nutshell.

0:06:00 Amanda Stassen: Wow.

0:06:01 Emily O’Brien: Very nutty, nutshell.

0:06:02 Amanda Stassen: Wow. Wow. And, like, I’m listening to your story. My palms are sweating. My palms are sweating as I’m envisioning this experience, sitting in that interrogation room, being asked those questions, knowing that I’m packing this stuff. Like, I just, like, it’s so visceral, this feeling. Like, it just feels like the worst possible nightmare that started with some guy, some relationship, somebody that you trusted.

0:06:31 Amanda Stassen: It’s wild. How do you feel about it today? Does it still feel as vivid?

0:06:36 Emily O’Brien: Absolutely. Every time I tell the story, you know. And I was sober for all of this, right? Like, I wasn’t drinking on the plane to try to make it go by. Like, I wanted my body language to tell the truth. I made a conscious choice to not drink that day, to not even try to, like, lie about it because I didn’t want to do it. And that was kind of, the officers knew that.

0:06:55 Amanda Stassen: Wow.

0:06:55 Emily O’Brien: So.

0:06:56 Amanda Stassen: And there’s. There’s so much to unpack in this. And listen, I want to thank you for sharing your story, because everyone’s personal journey is so precious and it’s so unique and it’s so important, and we learn so much from each other that I feel like you know, when we reflect on our journey, you have the benefit now of hindsight. We always do. Like, hindsight is 2020. But if you could pull out a word now that when you share your story, that sort of best describes or best speaks to the purpose that now powers you and the work you’re doing, I’m curious, what word would that be?

0:07:31 Emily O’Brien: One word over ten years of my life. Oh, my gosh. That’s putting me on the spot here, interrogation room 2.0. I’m kidding. Okay. I would just say fear, like fighter, you know? That’s why I was fighting for something good.

0:07:48 Amanda Stassen: Yeah.

0:07:49 Emily O’Brien: Because I wasn’t gonna let society tell me what I was gonna be. I was gonna let my people that were close to me tell me what I was gonna be. And I wasn’t gonna let myself, you know, tell me what I wasn’t gonna be. So, yeah, that’s it. I was gonna fight for something good.

0:08:03 Amanda Stassen: Yeah. Because inherently, you knew on the inside that this wasn’t the end of your story. This wasn’t the chapter that was gonna close out the book. You were gonna write a new chapter. How much support did you have around you at that time, and what difference did it make in your life?

0:08:21 Emily O’Brien: Well, first things first. I definitely surrounded myself with people that told me what my life was over, you know, not. Not on purpose. Like, some of these were people that I was related to, and, you know, just messages from other people that I thought I was close with. And so I spent a good first year after being arrested, like, thinking that it was over. And then it wasn’t until, like, I kind of got sick of feeling like that.

0:08:44 Emily O’Brien: I was sick of people telling me, you know, forgetting all the good. And then I kind of had to look back and remember all the good things that I did. I looked at pictures. I looked at, like, my old resumes and old albums from university. Of all the things that I did, I was like, screw this. Screw the stigma. Screw the people that are telling me, like, I think cranky, like, you know, yeah, I had a lot of work to do on myself to fix the relationships that I had harmed, like, especially my family. They were supportive, but, like, it wasn’t easy for them. It was very challenging, very stressful.

0:09:16 Emily O’Brien: I put them through hell, and I. You know, it was, I had to make sure that I wasn’t going to do that again. They were innocent victims. Where was I with that? Yeah. So the beginning was. Was definitely not. Not easy. Part of the thing was, I wasn’t allowed to really talk about the case. My lawyer was like, don’t talk to about it. So I was very alone at this time, you know, like you. Because, you know, it’s going through the courts.

0:09:43 Emily O’Brien: They don’t. He doesn’t like, you know, I’m just living in this horrible state of paranoia, looking at my rear view mirror every 2 seconds, you know, not thinking I was being followed. Like, just. It was horrible, for sure. So it was definitely my close family that were there for me. They did not let me off easy. It wasn’t like, oh, it’s okay, you know, it’s like, this is really horrible and it’s hurt us and we are gonna help you, but, you know, you have to fix your issues with, you know, the substances and stuff.

0:10:13 Amanda Stassen: And, you know, you’re making me think that in business we talk about making mistakes, we talk about failing and failing fast. And, you know, everyone talks about how important it is to fail and because that’s where we learn our best lessons. But, you know, none of the talking, none of the inspirational quotes makes it any easier. You know, it’s really coming through those mistakes. It’s coming out on the other side. This is. This is what we all hope for. This is what makes your story so powerful and comeback snacks mission of helping people trying to make a comeback so relatable and important.

0:10:49 Amanda Stassen: And when you look at the stats, like, you know, according to a government of Canada report, there’s like almost 4 million Canadians with criminal records on the book. And in the US, that number is even more. It’s like one in every three Americans have criminal records. That’s a huge number of people who now have this very challenging time, you know, with stigma and stereotypes, you know, getting work after they’re released from prison, which adds to the vicious cycle that many times ends up in recidivism.

0:11:23 Amanda Stassen: So, you know, knowing this or having this experience, you decided to start this business with this heart to hire people with criminal records because you knew it would be hard to find work after prison. What’s your experience been with this? How does someone even get a job or get a second chance if there’s a box to check on every application about past criminal convictions?

0:11:51 Emily O’Brien: Yeah. So there, there are a lot of checks, and unfortunately, there’s a lot of big corporations just have to do them. But what I’ve learned from talking to a lot of these HR managers is that they hire people, they have hired people with records. And it’s actually how you tell the story and how you talk about it. And that’s exactly how I got my first job out of prison. It was actually at a gym. I like, I went to this gym and I wrote a cover letter that said, I just got out of prison, and I’m looking way to, like, you know, start over in a healthy way.

0:12:22 Emily O’Brien: And then my resume was actually all my prison jobs.

0:12:27 Amanda Stassen: Okay.

0:12:28 Emily O’Brien: Yeah, and so I talked about it in this way that, you know, they saw as an, my skills as an asset. And so, so some of the work that I do now is actually with HR managers and, and hearing people that they’ve worked with. And, yeah. So they, a lot of companies do hire with records, even if they do the check, but it’s actually how you tell your story. And if you tell your story and how it happened, a lot of people do have the empathy and if you have the skills, like, you know, you kind of get the job for sure.

0:12:56 Amanda Stassen: So what are some ways that you can tell your story or what are some ways that you’ve recommended to people to tell their story differently?

0:13:05 Emily O’Brien: Well, for me in the gym, it was like, you know, I got mixed up in this, this trade and I had substance issues. And, you know, I always loved fitness and working out because I did, you know, I’ve always been very active, and, you know, they are looking for people with communication skills that are friendly and motivated. And I was really motivated. Like, I wanted to prove that I was, and I knew that I could prove that I was capable of doing that and doing it well.

0:13:32 Emily O’Brien: I talked that my story is like, kind of how it happened in a very, you know, succinct, in a very succinct way. But I also said how I learned from it, how it made me stronger and not weaker and how it made me exceptionally motivated and how this opportunity would give me a chance to really shine again. That’s pretty much what I said.

0:13:54 Amanda Stassen: Yeah, there’s something to be said about giving somebody a chance, and there’s this idea of how can we become part of one another’s comeback stories, because fundamentally, we’re all making mistakes all over the place, whether it’s abusive relationships or whether it’s abuse of substance or whether it’s failure in businesses or whatever. We all have stuff that could be sources of shame for us or pain for us.

0:14:25 Amanda Stassen: But I love the way that you’re positioning transparency and being authentic with, with someone. You could be a stranger and just saying, hey, listen, this is my story. I really just want an opportunity to rebuild my life. I’ll work hard and all of those kind of things and really connecting with each other as humans. Like, we’ve sort of forgotten how to do that. We’ve forgotten how to tell our personal stories.

0:14:47 Emily O’Brien: Yeah, exactly. We’ve forgotten how to go in and talk to people, you know? Like, I know people that they’re hiring managers and they’re getting text messages from people saying they’re not, like, you have to be able to go in and talk to people and face to face and do those things and give people the courtesy.

0:15:04 Amanda Stassen: Yeah.

0:15:05 Emily O’Brien: So I think that’s another thing that we’ve really, really lost, and we’ve all, a lot of us have also become entitled to people’s time. Right. So it’s like, and that’s not going to get you anywhere anywhere either.

0:15:16 Amanda Stassen: Yeah. There’s definitely a humility that we have lost to even engaging with one another, to engaging with one another, to spending time with one another. Like, it’s so easy to just send a text, or it’s so easy to just post something on social media and think that that’s some form of relationship or engagement with one another, and it isn’t. So you’re right. I think there’s just human communication that we need to almost relearn with one another. But how to be real, how to be vulnerable, how to be transparent.

0:15:45 Emily O’Brien: Exactly. And I think that was one of the good things about prison. Right? Like, there’s no phones in there, so that’s when you, you do have those real conversations. You make those real friendships, and that’s when you can make real progress.

0:15:56 Amanda Stassen: So tell me, where did the idea of selling the popcorn come from? Give me the origin story of Comeback Snacks.

0:16:03 Emily O’Brien: Well, it started in prison. And so I knew going in there, I was going to build something. I don’t know what it was going to be. Someone said, oh, you know, you should write a book. And I’m like, for what, like, what? I just broke the law brought drugs over the border. What? Like, there’s, there’s a bunch of stories like that already. Like, you know, it’s like, whatever. So I knew it was gonna be something good to prove others wrong and prove myself right. And I actually wasn’t afraid of going into prison because I knew. I was like, if this can, you know, if I can stumble into this, like, I’m sure it’s people that are, that are just like me and, you know, to stumble or fall into things that, you know. Maybe you had no criminal intent or, like, you know, you’re not, like, an evil person or whatever. Like, that means it’s not every single case, but the majority of people in prison are not violent offenders. They often do things to survive, or they’ve been victims of horrible abuse or mental illness.

0:16:56 Emily O’Brien: So food was one thing, as it unites everyone in the world. It especially united us in prison because it was one of the things that we did to pass the time and share stories, and there’s people from all, like, all different countries all over the world, and so we’d cook our favorite meals from home, and we learn about each other. But one thing that we all had in common was this anxiety about re entering the workforce. Or, like, just be like, no one’s gonna give me a job. Like, you’re just told when you’re in prison, you’re just told what you did wrong every single day. There’s no, like, there’s nothing about confidence building or, like, trying to, like, harness your skills. Like, okay, you know, you might have gotten like, trafficking or something like that, but, like, okay, that means you can take these skills, and you can be an entrepreneur. You can be good at sales, or, you know, when I met, like, women that were mothers, that were chefs, that were graphic designers, you know, they were, there were therapists in there. Like, that’s what they were to each. We were to each other, right?

0:17:55 Emily O’Brien: And so I was like, maybe I can create, maybe I can start a business. Like, oh, sorry, by the way, popcorn was a popular prison snack as well. It was one of my favorite snacks also, because my substance use was, like, it was kind of concurrent with a very dated, I had an eating disorder for a good ten years, and so I knew popcorn was a healthier food. And so going into prison, I knew that I was going to be triggered, I was very aware that this was going to be a triggering situation for me, and I didn’t want that to kind of, like, be reignited inside prison.

0:18:32 Emily O’Brien: And so I like to have popcorn as kind of, like, you know, there’s high anxiety. There’s, like, limited ways to exercise and a lot of control. And so I would make, like, different recipes with the popcorn, and then other people would join in and share their, like, their popcorn recipes. And then I was like, okay, like, one night, I was like, you know what, I have, like, some business experience. I’m by no means some, like, c-suite level, like, whatever, but I want to build a company that could hire people. I want to hire each other, I want to hire myself and prove to the world that and prove to the world that, you know, we are people, and we have purpose, and we can truly shine if people just gave us a chance. And I knew that that popcorn was going to be the vector to that mission.

0:19:20 Emily O’Brien: And because obviously, popcorn is not, it’s a popular. It’s a popular food. Everyone knows, everyone in the world knows what popcorn is.

0:19:28 Amanda Stassen: Yeah.

0:19:28 Emily O’Brien: Right? So I thought I could tie that universality, awareness, universal awareness of popcorn to, you know, universal awareness of humanity in all of us. And so that’s kind of how the popcorn thing, how it started with popcorn, but it’s actually all about the people. And so in prison, I kind of, you know, then I told my mom about it, then I told, like, you know, the correctional officers about it, and we did a survey as to, like, what name we were going to pick it. Choose which. By the way, the original name was Cons and Kernels.

0:19:58 Amanda Stassen: Oh, that’s so good.

0:20:00 Emily O’Brien: Yeah.

0:20:00 Amanda Stassen: You changed it. What. What made you change the name?

0:20:03 Emily O’Brien: Well, first of all, it was, we chose that one because, like, we chose it together. So it had, like, this element of community and collectivity. But then as I got out of prison, that’s, it alienated us. Which we didn’t want. So it’s like, okay, like, how can we make this more universal? You know, you just play around with words and stuff like that. It’s like, okay, snacks. Popcorn. And then, so eventually, it was like, Comeback Snacks. Because, you know, mistakes are universal, but so are comebacks.

0:20:29 Emily O’Brien: That’s how that happened.

0:20:31 Amanda Stassen: That’s so good. And it’s, you know, I mean, I do like the name Cons and kernels, but it does speak to this, it’s like the mistake is ever before you, whereas comeback snacks speaks to the hope and the future. So I applaud the name change, but I do love where it started, and I like the origin of it. So. Okay, so now you’re released from prison, what was your journey into entrepreneurship from that point? Because, like, listen, entrepreneurship is tough slugging for the best of us on the best of days.

0:21:05 Amanda Stassen: How did you, walk us through how you went from popping kernels in prison to then selling in retail stores?

0:21:11 Emily O’Brien: Yeah so when I was in prison, I actually started building my network, I would write letters. I read 82 books. I wrote letters to the authors. I wrote letters to local business leaders like Dave Chilton. He wrote me back. He’s, like, one of my mentors in the wealthy Barbary, Lawrence Hill, an author very well known author? And even the volunteers. There was a lot of volunteers that came into prison as well. And so I started telling them about this idea. There were people from the government that came into the prison to, like, do, like, votes and stuff. And so I started building my connections with them.

0:21:43 Emily O’Brien: And then when I got out and I lived in the halfway house, I came up with the story, I did a story with the local paper, so I knew that I was going to be the one to share this story. And it was in Hamilton, like, I went to the Hamilton halfway house, which, again, I saw as an asset, because that’s where I grew up. That’s where I had, the majority of people that knew me from when I was young were, as opposed to when I lived in Toronto. I was more just like, oh, Emily, like, she goes out all the time. Like, no one knew me from when I was young in Toronto.

0:22:12 Emily O’Brien: So Hamilton was, like, a great starting over place. And then as a story came out, like, a local grocery store was like, oh, you can, like, pop in here. Pop your popcorn in here for free, because you have to pop it from, like, a licensed kitchen.

0:22:24 Amanda Stassen: Right.

0:22:26 Emily O’Brien: And then I just helped them with, like, their social media, so we had, like, a little bartering system. And then my current business partner, actually, I talked to him when I was in prison, and he hopped on as a friend, is trying to help me build it. And so he basically kind of helped with all the legal stuff, and now he does pretty much, like he’s COO. So, obviously, you have to have two, I might be the outward popcorn one, but you have to have the person that does all the numbers and all those things.

0:22:58 Emily O’Brien: And then we had someone volunteer to be our accountant. And, like, so many people came out when the story, when the story came out and like, to support us. So that’s why I always call it a community-built business. You know, you have your regular, like, critiques, but, they were pretty much coward. They cowered away when they saw how much support was coming out, you know, even from printing companies who would send us, like, $2,500 and free labels and stuff like that. So.

0:23:29 Emily O’Brien: And then someone else bought us our first popcorn, our first, like, bigger popcorn popper so we could make more. And so that’s how it worked. And then at that same time, with the justice system, they don’t want you just going, well, you’re not allowed, basically, to just start a business right out of prison, you have to have, like, a regular, you know, pay stub job, which I get.

0:23:49 Amanda Stassen: Why is that. Why? Is that?

0:23:52 Emily O’Brien: Just because it’s like they can trust the employer. They know who the employer is. It’s more just like a legal, especially. And they want to make sure that you’re getting paid. Right. So. And so that’s why I joined at the gym, and that’s when that whole prison resume thing kind of came out.

0:24:12 Amanda Stassen: Right.

0:24:14 Emily O’Brien: And. Yeah. And so then after that, we had our first hirer within six months, I think, and then another one in four months after that. And we’ve gone, we’ve, like, worked with, like, ten to twelve individuals over the last four years that all have been within the justice system. And then I also work with, you know, other companies now. I do workshops with other companies, and I work with the federal, provincial governments and organizations like the John Howard Society on fair chance hiring, because I really want to figure out how to how to scale that.

0:24:44 Emily O’Brien: Sorry, that’s more the mission stuff. But then so back to the how do I get onto retail store, retail shelves? Well, yeah, it started with that one grocery store, and then there was, like, little, like, mom and pop shops that reached out. And then eventually after that, we found our first manufacturing partner in 2020 during COVID. And that’s when we were really able to get, like, the shelf stable product.

0:25:06 Emily O’Brien: So we had a shelf life that lasted longer than, you know, a month because lot of retailers, you have to have nine months.

0:25:12 Amanda Stassen: Right.

0:25:13 Emily O’Brien: And then it took off during there. So, um, just talking to people, going out to events, and someone else shares it with someone else. Continue to give. I don’t call giving back, I call it giving forward. And, yeah, continue to help others, bring others up as you do that, and never lose sight of, like, who you are, even though sometimes it’s hard, because when you live a life that’s so public, you have everyone else telling you who you should be, but you always have to remember who you are and fight for who you are.

0:25:45 Amanda Stassen: You mentioned something about giving forward. What does that mean?

0:25:51 Emily O’Brien: Well, a lot of people talk about the term giving back, which is there’s a lot of good give back work, but when you come out of prison, you haven’t really taken anything, so you don’t have anything to give back. You come out with nothing, and, you know, so, but you can always help others learn and help others grow forward and move their life forward. So that’s why I called it giving forward with your experience.

0:26:13 Amanda Stassen: Like, you’re investing in the future. Yeah, I like that. I like that. And you’ve touched on this a little bit. In the impact entrepreneur space, we do talk about impact first and then financial because you want both. So impact because that’s your mission and financial because you need the dollars to fuel the impact. Right. So you mentioned that you’re now you’ve been able to hire, like, is it ten, formerly. ten to 12?

0:26:44 Emily O’Brien: Yeah 10-12

0:26:44 Amanda Stassen: And is that, like, are they full time employees or. How has that worked for you?

0:26:49 Emily O’Brien: It’s. It’s been awesome. Like, over the last couple years, it’s been mostly part time because when you, when you come out of prison, you have to do all these other programs, and a lot of people have families, so full time work is not really something that a lot of people can do right away. I mean, 80% of the women in prison are mothers, so they have to look up, like, you know, childcare and all these things.

0:27:10 Emily O’Brien: And so, yeah, like, the way that our organization is structured, it’s like we have a small internal team, then we have sampling teams, and we have people in sales, but then the trucks that are driven are driven by, like, a third party. So, like, we’re still, like, small. Right. And that’s why I wanted to figure out a way to kind of scale that mission. And that’s when I started doing more of the talks and workshops with companies and working with HR managers at companies to try to really help scale, scale this mission. And, you know, now I work with different, all these different employers who also do fair chance hiring and even have programs specifically designed for people coming out of prison.

0:27:49 Amanda Stassen: So the popcorn is really a vehicle to really share this story.

0:27:54 Emily O’Brien: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.

0:27:57 Amanda Stassen: What about financially, how, how many locations are you now selling in?

0:28:02 Emily O’Brien: We are in about 500, I think, or 600, something like that. And then over the holidays, we do, like, tons of gift baskets, we do arenas. We actually just got into Madison Square Garden.

0:28:14 Amanda Stassen: Congratulations. Wow.

0:28:16 Emily O’Brien: Yeah. And so, and we’ll also be launching at Rogers center this year with the Blue Jays.

0:28:20 Amanda Stassen: Awesome.

0:28:21 Emily O’Brien: So whether, yeah, whether it’s. And they’re also in offices and office spaces and airports and things like that. So lots of different channels, lots of different locations, and lots of different ways that people can enjoy it. So, so it’s good. And, like, every day I try to, you know, do something where I can, whether it’s connecting someone or, you know, reminding someone what they’re good at, it’s like you always have to remember that and remember why you’re doing what you’re doing. And that’s why it’s, it’s so important for me to maintain all the relationships that I have with people that, and even, and build new ones as well, because I get a lot of people that reach out. And you can help someone in, like, the smallest, like, what you think is the smallest way. You know, it can, you know, it can just be like, from, again, connecting someone with an email or having a ten minute conversation about my journey with them and, you know, gives them a sense of hope. Right? So you can really change it, change someone’s life. And, and it doesn’t have to be this, like, whole big production. It’s like you can do very, very simple things, very simple gestures that can have enormous impact.

0:29:24 Amanda Stassen: We don’t usually think about that necessarily in business. You’re so focused on the product that you’re making. You want to make it better, you want to make it, you know, cost less, and you want it to be in more stores, and you want to focus on the growth. But I love the way that you’re framing up, scaling in a different way. You’re scaling the impact. What does the picture look like for the future vision of Comeback Snacks for your growth?

0:29:52 Emily O’Brien: Well, one of our, how we work is like, one can’t lag behind the other. And so, like, because I have a great team, a great business partner, and great people that do work on the business side, I also have kind of like, my own network of people who help me on, on the mission side. For example, I’m part of the social venture zone at Toronto Metropolitan University, and that’s an incubator specifically for social ventures. And so they’ve really helped me kind of, all right, take it from hiring from within to, you know, doing some podcasts, doing some workshops here and there. So how do we really scale this massively?

0:30:24 Emily O’Brien: You know, now it’s like, okay, like, maybe I’m gonna do, I’m gonna create some online videos that can be sent to all the prisons, you know, and help people prepare from inside prison. Maybe it’s creating a book from all these comeback stories of people that have been incarcerated and built things. Like, have a system, so when I had, when I do interviews and these things that get, like, international attention and I get, like, hundreds of emails of people reaching out to me, how can I kind of scale the mission by making sure I’m sending them to, like, where I can send them where I know that they are going to be successful in their work if it’s not necessarily with us, right. So whether it’s sending them to a specific employer or a certain person or a certain organization, you know, and really helping them get started on that path and completing that path to meaningful employment.

0:31:08 Amanda Stassen: Yeah, I mean, it’s clear you’ve achieved your comeback. And the popcorn, like I was saying earlier, is, like, an awesome vehicle to share the story and to actually multiply the ability to help others who have been formerly incarcerated. But I don’t want to gloss over or I don’t want to underestimate the amount of personal work you had to do to get here. You know, just before we kind of come to a close, how important was reconciling the past and giving yourself time to heal, to getting where you are today as a leader, you know, not just.

0:31:42 Amanda Stassen: Not just being able to trust again, but for building healthy relationships with your team?

0:31:49 Emily O’Brien: You might find this funny, but, like, well, I don’t know, I found it funny. I was like, okay, I was. I was in, I was in house arrest. And lawyers, like, my bail was set for 50,000. And so, ironically enough, my legal fees end up being $50,000. This is, like, a friend of my dad’s. And, you know, I paid my parents back every cent, so a lot of people like, oh, but you didn’t pay your legal fees. Of course. Everyone’s, like, saying all this crap, but, nope, they helped me, but I paid them back.

0:32:18 Emily O’Brien: And so I was like, all right, so what do we pay money for? And you know. What I looked at it as, okay, going to school for my master’s degree would cost me about $50,000 for a year. Well, rehab would probably be about $50,000 for a year or more. And so I was like, I’m going to make this my master’s degree and my recovery all at the same time. And so that’s how I saw prison, and that’s how I kind of reconciled.

0:32:41 Emily O’Brien: I saw it as a time of healing, a time of growing, time of learning by myself and also with others, you know, and that’s kind of it was - I knew I used every day in that year that I was actually inside the physical prison and did something good with that.

0:32:55 Amanda Stassen: I love that. I love that you position - It’s really the way you framed it in your own mind. It’s like, here’s a situation that is, it’s bad, it’s terrible, it’s all those things, but I’m going to extract the good from it. I’m going to use this time not just to heal, but to grow and to, you know, learn more about myself and to prepare for the future. And I think it really comes down to a choice. And, you know, what are we going to do with the days that we’ve been given?

0:33:25 Amanda Stassen: Are we going to use them to better ourselves and the world around us, or are we going to waste them? Is life just going to happen to us or is life happening for us when we think about it? So I love that. I love that you are so aware and so awake and so intentional about taking that time and not letting it pass you by but actually making it into something.

0:33:53 Emily O’Brien: Yes. Amplifying the days. That’s it.

0:33:55 Amanda Stassen: Absolutely. Listen, Emily, thank you so much. It’s been awesome listening and learning from you. Before we wrap up, I would love for you to share with our listeners two practical purpose tips that they can apply today to grow their business or brand. What two tips would you share?

0:34:13 Emily O’Brien: Number one, don’t rush things. I feel like we are in a world that is always moving so fast and we are expected to pump out, like, at rapid fire, all this stuff. But for me, like, my, my best growth, like, came when I actually took the time to do it. And, you know, sometimes it might, it won’t be a week, it won’t, might not be a month. In my case, it was, it was a full year. And my entire court sentencing, my entire time in the system was seven years, right. And so don’t rush things to, like, pump out things for other people. Like, take the pace for yourself and for the cause that you’re working on.

0:34:52 Emily O’Brien: And the second one was allow other people to, like, encourage other people to share their stories, because when people are asked to share their story, it’ll actually help them heal, and you can help more people by having more people share their stories and their own experiences. And so that’s why, you know, at Comeback Snacks, if people want to share their story, I’m like, okay, you do this interview. You know, like, you get, like, I don’t want it to be me all the time. I want other people to be able to tell their story and so they, so they are understood, just like, you know, I am.

0:35:21 Amanda Stassen: Oh, my gosh, the story part of our life is so important. I love the two tips that you shared. I think when we think about business growth, it’s always about speed. It’s like we’ve lost complete patience with anything that does not happen on demand, and now. So I love the reminder to take a beat, let the process happen. If it happens slower than you expect, you’re not gauging it by somebody else’s timeline. And then the second tip of stories, and telling stories is so important. And that’s really what this podcast is all about.

0:36:00 Amanda Stassen: It’s about giving entrepreneurs the space to be able to share their stories to get out to more people, because it’s not like we need all businesses to be multinationals. It’s great that they are, especially if they’re good businesses. What we need are more businesses starting up that actually are, have a mission and are purpose driven to do good in the world and to impact lives, which is exactly what you’re doing. So I love both of those tips.

0:36:29 Amanda Stassen: So where can people find and connect with you? And where can they buy Comeback Snacks?

0:36:34 Emily O’Brien: Absolutely. So anyone can connect with me on LinkedIn under Emily O’Brien, Instagram at Comebacksnacks or at EmzObrien, emz dot obrien. And my company email is info@comebacksnacks.com if you want to send any notes and then you can buy it actually, at any Farm Boy, you can buy it, buy it. There’s like, oh my God. Oh my goodness. I would just say go to the website online because then you can get it delivered right to your house, and then you can also see all the locations that we work with because we’re all actually all over Canada, so. But if you’re in Ontario, Farm Boy is like the one chain that, you know, I’ll always have it for sure.

0:37:12 Amanda Stassen: That’s fantastic. So that’s awesome. Emily, thank you so much for sharing your story, your life learnings, your passion. Thank you for living your purpose. The world is made better because of you and the work that you’re doing. Thank you again.

0:37:27 Emily O’Brien: Oh, thank you.

0:37:31 Amanda Stassen: Hey, thanks for listening to the purpose power brand podcast. I’m Amanda Stassen. If you liked what you heard, be sure to share and subscribe on your favorite podcast player. We’d also love to hear what resonated with you. Or if you have a guest suggestion, drop us a line at info@bizu.co. Special thanks to Mark Salam for original music and lead podcasting for production. Lastly, if you’re ready to purpose power your brand to grow, win and impact at scale, let’s talk.

0:37:57 Amanda Stassen: Visit www.bizu.co. That’s www.bizu.co. Bye for now.